Spidi Ergo 365 Expedition Suit - first pictures

Discussion in 'Equipment' started by moggi1964, Mar 29, 2012.

  1. moggi1964

    moggi1964 Tiger Keeper

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    EN 13595-2:2002 - Protective clothing for professional motorcycle riders. Jackets, trousers and one piece or divided suits. Test method for determination of impact abrasion resistance.

    There is also this

    http://www.satra.co.uk/spotlight/download.php?file=spot_0607_motorcycle_clothing.pdf

    So from what I have read this CE part 2 takes all the aspects of Part 1 but then requires additional abrasion resistance time in part 2.

    Definitely ask Matteo, he seems very forthcoming in his responses and let me know if he says anything that worries you :D
    #21
  2. MZ5

    MZ5 Been here awhile

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    Yes, 4 seconds vs. 7 in zones 1 and 2 is the difference between levels 1 and 2 under EN 13595 (jackets, trousers, & suits). This page:
    http://www.bmf.co.uk/pages/briefing_room_archive.php?fullstory=435
    has a decent digest of the rest of what's needed (cut resistance, burst strength, things like armor and cuffs staying in place, etc), but you'll have to scroll down and pick through the other specs.

    I will likely ask directly/privately, as I have in the past, whether new clothing is different/better than previous versions, and how many of the included layers are required to achieve the certification.
    #22
  3. moggi1964

    moggi1964 Tiger Keeper

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    Great article; thanks. Let me know if you get a response.
    #23
  4. moggi1964

    moggi1964 Tiger Keeper

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    So I got the chance to wear the jacket today.

    Weather started cool so three layered then when things started warming up I went straight to one.

    The back protector is invisible once you are on the bike and the jacket felt almost weightless. Doesn't feel like it needs 'breaking in' at all, everything moves like it should with no effort.

    It got pretty warm (76f) out and given that we were standing around on the MSF course and then riding at 15mph max the rest of the time, the suit performed really well. I opened all the vents but frankly it was difficult to get any airflow at 15mph. I did notice that even when standing in direct sunlight the suit didn't feel like it was absorbing heat from the sun.

    I had a wicking layer on as a base so this will have helped too in the cooling department.

    So hot weather performance is still to be tested but this first tryout left me feeling really good about my purchase.

    It's early days and no real testing can take place till I get my Explorer so more to come soon.
    #24
  5. Maxyb

    Maxyb Falling over slowly

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    So... done any riding yet?:ear
    I'm keen to hear how the suit turns out-seems you're stoked with it so far.
    I'm planning on getting one when i go over to europe later this year (from the HQ, i figured they're have more stock there somehow)
    A question i want to ask you is about the cleanliness of the white - ie, does it get dirty quick as most white clothes do, or does the dirt not soak in?

    Cheers, Max
    #25
  6. moggi1964

    moggi1964 Tiger Keeper

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    Max,
    still waiting for my Explorer to arrive so no rides yet. The sleeve on the jacket got dirty the other week so I just wiped it clean. Certainly it will show the dirt more than a black suit but that will just make you look more like a rugged adventurer when you get to Starbucks :D

    The color is more of a cream than a white so it isn't quite as bad as my old cricket trousers used to be.

    By the end of May I expect to be riding most days and reporting back. I hope to get a chance early on to try it out in heavy rain both without and with the liners to see how it holds up. I will definitely post here.

    I envy your chance to go to the office in Italy. Be sure to check in with Matteo before you go.
    #26
  7. moggi1964

    moggi1964 Tiger Keeper

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    #27
  8. Maxyb

    Maxyb Falling over slowly

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    Cool mate, i'll have my ear to the ground
    congrats on the new bike too

    Max
    #28
  9. moggi1964

    moggi1964 Tiger Keeper

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    Overall I do think this suit will have been a good investment but only a few months of riding will truly put that assertion to the test. So if you aren't in a rush to buy just keep checking back here and I will be posting my thoughts as the suit gets more wear. If you want tried and tested right now then there are plenty of options and lots of discussion on here as to what people think of their choices. By the way, if I had needed to spend little less I would have looked at the Spidi Marathon given that the Ergo fit so well.

    I hope my impressions prove helpful to you but I cannot stress enough I have only a handful of miles on this suit at the moment and am waiting till my Triumph Explorer arrives before changing that.
    #29
  10. keiji

    keiji Long timer

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    I purchased one of these recently (well the regular PRO version) and went for my first ride today (in an unexpected frog strangler).

    But first, a little bit about construction. Surprisingly, the seams on the Ergo pro are pretty simple-Most are just a single stitch through ONE layer of fabric, an inseam stitch through both, and a top stitch through both. I suspect the row of stitching through one layer of fabric is to keep the seam from tearing out.. These are present in all 4 zones of the suit meaning they provide the 600kPa seam burst strength. A few of the shoulder seams use appear to use a type 5 seam below.
    [​IMG]
    But what about Zone 1 & 2? The test results show a greater than 1200kPa burst result! How did they achieve this?! It turns out there is a second layer of fabric (which appears to be a kevlar mix due to some characteristic yellow fibers) sewn to the mesh lining at the elbow and shoulder. The rest of the suit is otherwise a single layer of fabric, except for a few areas with pockets etc. So the base fabric gives 2.5 sec of abrasion resistance according to the test, and the underlay brings it past 30 seconds.

    [​IMG]

    I know 500d cordura has been shown to have <1 sec of abrasion according to the test, but it is never stated whether or not it is a coated or uncoated fabric, or even if it is a laminate. The Tenax fabric Spidi uses doesn't seem remarkably strong or heavy compared to my laminated 500d cordura Aerostich AD1 pants, although it could be masked by the way tenax is woven/finished. It is soft, and feels almost like a cotton.

    Sometimes I wonder if it was worth putting the money down for the jacket, considering how I can find many of these construction elements in cheaper jacket. The Firstgear Rainier is very similar in construction with a single inseam and single topstitch and teramid (kevlar) underlay. However, the Rainier is missing the extra row of stitching through the one layer of fabric (and of course there is no real way of telling how strong the fabric is).

    Then again, you see test results from OTHER suits using similar nylons, and the results are not so hot. Supposedly, the PWR shell Rev'it uses is supposed to be from the same base fiber that cordura is made from, only woven differently. 0.71 seconds in the test for the Sand is not so hot, so Spidi must be doing something right to hit that 2.5 seconds(assuming just the jacket meets level 2 without the liners!)

    Onto the first ride and features.
    I commute 120 miles a day, and one of the things that pisses me off to no end is velcro. After a year of daily use, I often find the velcro is worn out and in need of replacing, which can be a massive task due to how complicated some of these jackets are. So while the fastening system for the neck and sleeves is a bit fiddly, I think it is great that I have snaps to use. As for all the features and instructions - If I did not see a video beforehand, I would have no idea what the hell was going on with that suit. There's a lot of extra stuff that I will probably never use and would have preferred not to pay for.

    In terms of water-resistance, I rode at 75mph for 60 miles in what I would call a pretty heavy rain (heavy enough to have my klim stowaway leak through the front zipper), and I'd have to say it did a pretty good job. I ride a wr250x so there is practically no weather protection. I wore the waterproof liner, and when I reached my destination, only part of the arms on the liner were somewhat moist on the outside.

    Turns out that while most of the suit is a 3 layer laminate, part of the fabric on the front of the arms isn't coated at all and passes wind (and water) easily. In moggi's picture it would be the darker brown fabric in between the elbow adjusters. I suspect they did this to keep the jacket more breathable in the hot, but I think the jacket really would've been ideal if they used the laminate there.

    [​IMG]

    After I got home I hung it up to dry and it is most of the way there after 2 hours or so, more or less in line with the AD1 pants I was wearing. In any case, I think you would probably be able to get away with pushing past most rain until you found a comfortable spot to put the liners in, or in the case of most of your daily trips, arrive at your destination.


    VERDICT:

    While I only have one day on the jacket, I'd say you could *probably* get away with a lesser suit if you were on a budget so long as you checked the key construction points (seams, reinforcements). I'm not so sure I would've paid the full price for it, but I purchased it from Motorama.it at a fairly significant discount bringing it in line with other non-certified 3 layer suits using liners and it was a no brainer at that price point.

    Come back in 6 months and I will have put 15000 miles on it.
    #30
  11. moggi1964

    moggi1964 Tiger Keeper

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    Great detail especially the part on the stitching and fabric. Looks like you and I will be running the same suit in tandem so two user reports in differing locations (I assume) should cover off quite a few parameters.

    Perhaps a spray coating on one arm to see if that helps delay the process of water transferring is worth a go then you can compare it to the other arm.

    Did the jacket feel heavier in the arm where the water had permeated? I read that the material does not hold water so would not gain weight though I cannot confirm that applies to all the materials used. Useful to know your thoughts.

    I pick up my Explorer this Saturday assuming the test ride is positive and the forecast is rain so it looks like the test begins shortly.

    Will post back when I have something to tell. Be sure, too, good or bad it'll be posted (in response to the "fanboy" PM I got asking if I actually worked for Spidi :huh )
    #31
  12. enkil

    enkil Been here awhile

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    Great looking suit.
    #32
  13. keiji

    keiji Long timer

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    I actually live in NJ too and commute from Exit 10 on 287 to Exit 59. I rode in the rain on Wednesday which was on and off in the morning and the suit dried out in the last 20 or so minutes to work. The reality of any waterproof breathable fabric is that once the Durable Water Repellent wets out, the face fabric will absorb water (gore-tex or not). Riding at highway speeds will generally overpower the DWR, and the Ergo 365 Pro is no different.

    The issue with most suits using waterproof liners is that the mesh fabric, which is great for sucking sweat (water) away from your body, will also pull it from the shell of the suit. So for the most part, the mesh fabric stayed dry, except at the front/inner arms. I am very surprised that none of the other un-taped seams in the jacket leaked at all, and I am still of the opinion that this jacket would've been perfect if they had used the 3 layer laminate in that spot.
    #33
  14. moggi1964

    moggi1964 Tiger Keeper

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    Oh well, I was hoping that we would have differing climates but that doesn't matter. Good news on the untaped seams, let's hope that lasts.

    I'm interested to experience this front/inner arm (well actually I am eager to avoid it) to understand that better and provide feedback to Spidi.

    Picking up the bike tomrrow though the weather forecast seems to be rather nice so if I decide to keep the bike it may be a day or two before I get some rain testing done.

    How are you enjoying the fit? Is the neck still super comfortable and what about sealing off airflow to the neck area; is it efficient? I expect I will get to test the venting tomorrow if the forecasted 78 appears and hopefully so will you.

    Ride safe
    #34
  15. chef_of_the_future

    chef_of_the_future You talking to me?

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    Can it core a apple?
    #35
  16. levain

    levain STILL Jim Williams

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    Apparently not, but instructions on how to peel it are under the left arm pit:lol3
    #36
  17. keiji

    keiji Long timer

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    3000 Mile Report (Jacket only)

    After a month of ownership, I have to say my biggest complaint with the thing is the styling, I get some weird looks at the office compared to my last jacket (BMW Boulder 2), but I knew how it looked going in. If they could put the same materials and construction techniques into a jacket styled like the 648 model they have or the Ace Tex, I would be interested.

    Other than that, I think the jacket is good, but a few steps shy of greatness. There were some design choices impacted by the requirements of meeting EN13595, and I think it shows. Other than that, if your priorities are on protection (at least according to tests)and you tend to ride in hotter climates, then I highly recommend it. I bought it for less than some of the other jackets using liner systems, so I think this is an obvious choice.

    Things that are good:
    -Fits very well, plenty of adjustment to keep the armor tight to your body
    -Dries fairly quickly after a rain storm
    -Vents well with the liner out.
    -Waterproof (with the liner in)
    -Sleeve cuff system is very easy to use with gloves, and it is easy to tuck your glove under the waterproof liner
    -Knowing the suit passes EN13595 Level 2

    Things I am on the fence about:
    -Removable pockets-I thought these were really silly at first, but you can change how the jacket flows air depending on the pockets you have. The majority of the time I run without the removable pockets though, and I would've preferred to not have paid for them, or had that money go into another feature.
    -Waterproof liner (removable)-Fiddling with liners is always annoying, and of course I knew that going in. The liner/jacket system of the Ergo pro performs significantly better than other jackets with liners that I have used in the past-good enough that when it rains, I don't even think twice about leaving my Klim Stowaway at home. For the most part the shell repels water, although you do feel a little moistness on the front of the arms where a 3L WPB fabric is not used.
    -Chest vents-The vents flow a lot of air, but they are somewhat fiddly to work with all the snaps.

    Things that are annoying:
    -Front zips that attach the H2Out liner to the shell are damn near impossible to use while wearing both. There are 4 sets of zippers, two on the bottom and two near the neck-the neck ones are hard to use. I understand that this is to allow for using the chest armor, but it is still annoying.


    Room for improvement:
    -Sleeve zips need a locking 2-way zip so it can double as a vent, unless it wouldn't meet EN13595.
    -Either the H2Out liner or the shell need a waterproof cell phone pocket on the inside.
    -If they could make the outer shell waterproof, I'd probably buy that instead.

    If you have specific questions, just ask. Probably one of the best things I can say about the jacket is that it does a good enough job everywhere that I more or less forget about it.
    #37
  18. keiji

    keiji Long timer

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    4500 mile report

    Jacket liner leaks two months in. Didn't even make it to its first wash.

    I get a little bit wet on the front of my arms, but I am not positive if it is leaking there, or if it is just crazy sweat. The pattern is very strange though, dimples all along my shirt where the seam tape is.

    I am definitely getting wet on my back and it is because the seam tape is peeling. Wouldn't be surprised if this was happening on the arms too, but just isn't as visible (ie glue is not bonded all the way through).

    [​IMG]

    Good news is that Spidi will replace it...once I send it back. Going to drop it off in the mail tomorrow.

    I've gotten damn near every MC garment I've owned to leak, Gore-tex included. I just have the worst luck. Or maybe I am just too tough on this stuff.''

    Edit:
    Finally got it back. When I shipped it to them it got stuck in customs for a while, man that took forever.
    #38
  19. moggi1964

    moggi1964 Tiger Keeper

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    Sorry to hear that. I've been wearing my Spidi mesh jacket and pants so haven't put many miles on the Ergo but once the weather changes in the fall I will. Glad to see Spidi stepping up quickly with a new garment :clap

    Let us know once you have it.
    #39
  20. keiji

    keiji Long timer

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    It does about as well as you would expect for a 4 season jacket. I start to sweat around 85F (~30C) just standing around in my street clothes so anything above that is simply a matter of tolerance. It has only hit 95F+ (35C) a couple of times and it wasn't bad, but I still sweated a lot when I stopped.

    It also depends if yo are talking about a dry heat or humid heat. Dry, I can do comfortably in just about anything, humid not so much.
    #40