spline lube and transmission questions

Discussion in 'Airheads' started by apt13, Jan 28, 2012.

  1. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    The lever isn't linear but rather extremely exponential.
    #21
  2. disston

    disston ShadeTreeExpert

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    Change the fork oil and or rebuild the dampners, align the tubes, replace steering head bearings?
    #22
  3. Bill Harris

    Bill Harris Confirmed Curmudgeon

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    Grabby clutch? Seems to engage a bit quicker that it ought to, or seems to chatter a little on engagement (pile on the subjectivity here). If the splines have never had moly lube applied, they'll probably benefit (IMO). One reason a clutch can be grabby is that the clutch plate does not slide freely under load on the input shaft. Moly lube is magic-- it contains molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) which is like little atom-sized ball bearings that (supposedly) actually embed themselves in the steel so the "dry lubricant" properties are still there after the greasy has gone away.

    Do it once to a new-to-you bike to reset that maintenance item to zero. Pulling the tranny is a good bonding experience, lets you get up close and personal to check the clutch plates, the engine and tranny oil seals, the throwout bearing, etc, etc. Get that merit badge under your belt and you, too, can pontificate. :pope :lol3
    #23
  4. 100RT

    100RT Long timer

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    Well guys, Yesterday I pulled my gearbox for a spline lube at 10K since the last one. The splines were clean except for what little bit remained in the valleys of the teeth. Bike shifted and the clutch action was fine before hand. Previouly used Lubriplate 3000 now used a 50/50 mixture of Loctite Moly paste and Wurth 3000. The Lubriplate has a min of 3% moly the Loctite has 65% plus moly. Thats why I switched.

    My 81 R100RT has 161K miles on it. On Thusdsay I went to a dealer in Pittsburgh and on the service rack was an R1100S oilhead with trashed splines. Both the hub and the input shaft were gone....at 15,000. Was the cause, lack of lube due to age, no lube or an alignment problem, who knows.

    Sure makes a guy wonder. Obviously I believe in lube. Having owned an antique airplane in the past, preventative maintenance is in my blood.
    #24
  5. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    It surely doesn't hurt anything lubing them IF done correctly. I just thought of another thing lubing them often screws up besides oiling the clutch plate: Drive shaft bolts coming loose. Very related when you think about it. I know from seeing many a worn airhead input spline that has been lubed regularly that lubing them does not save them from wear. I also know from tightening down literally hundreds of drive shaft bolts that if you tighten them down correctly, they don't come loose. Without a washer they need nothing but torqued down correctly and they never come loose. Loctite won't keep them from coming loose. Tightening them down will although I think some need to use loctite in order to remember to tighten things. It helps in that way for some. In the mean time 100RT and others out there, my experience has me betting your bike really needs something else worked on way more than those splines. Not always! But most of the time.

    BTW, dry splines do not mean they need lubed. Most greases go dry there very quickly. That's the whole point of using moly. It is a dry lubricant.

    Now before someone gets the itching to come after me personally for insisting there is only my way and no other way. Try reading what I wrote above again. I am here writing another post to get a message out that I rarely read on the net. Bond with your bike in a meaningful way. That way it matters. Harder to do yes I know but isn't that the way things most often work?

    On tightening the drive shaft bolts: I highly suspect that if more people got a torque adapter and used a torque wrench to tighten down the drive shaft bolts they would probably just then realize just how tight those bolts are suppose to be. Those are tough threads and bolts!
    #25
  6. DoktorT

    DoktorT BigBrowedNeandereer

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    #26
  7. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    Exclusively euro cars. Get back with us with some pro BMW factory authorized motorcycle experience like I do. After all, I can use some of those pro buzz words too. And on the subject at hand!! Yes, some of the learning IS counter intuitive. Hasn't all that car experience taught you that . . . . At least leave the personal crap out of it. I thought it is against ADV rules but . . . .

    Once again inmates, getting out of piss's way is not pissing back. It's self defense.
    #27
  8. 100RT

    100RT Long timer

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    Everyone has their rules and reasons for doing things. Not all bikes live in sunny dry climates or near the salty ocean air. Environment means rust and corrosion or not. The airhead will gets its lubrication as has been done in the past.
    Ride safe
    #28
  9. H96669

    H96669 A proud pragmatist.

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    From BMW, December 1984.

    Lubrication of clutch splines:

    We described in two previous Service Informatons {xx xxx xx (xxxx)} and {xx xxx xx (xxxx)} the importance of clutch spline lubrication.

    Tests results where clutch splines are kept properly lubricated are extremely positive. Stiff shifting of the gear box and stiffness of clutch operation can be directly attributed to dry or rusty splines.

    Lubrication of this area will greatly prolong clutch life, and we recommend the following lubricants only for this purpose.

    XXXXXXX XXXXX-XX
    and
    XXXXXXXXX

    We urge you to inform your customers of this essential once-a-year service.

    Yours truly,

    BMW of North America, Inc

    XXXXXXX XXXXX
    XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX XXXXXXX
    XXXXXXXXX XXXXX
    #29
  10. jackd

    jackd Long timer

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    Well there it is in writing....
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  11. supershaft

    supershaft because I can

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    As long as you know that I read that back when it came out. I do agree with BMW service bulletins when what they say agrees with what I see. It does happen quite a bit actually. Not in this case. I have seen no correlation between what that bulletin says and what I have seen in the last almost 30 years whatsoever. Not with my own gear or with what I see working.
    #31
  12. Bill Harris

    Bill Harris Confirmed Curmudgeon

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    Said it once, might's well say it again:

    If the splines have never had moly lube applied, they'll probably benefit (IMO). One reason a clutch can be grabby is that the clutch plate does not slide freely under load on the input shaft. Moly lube is magic-- it contains molybdenum disulfide (MoS2) which is like little atom-sized ball bearings that (supposedly) actually embed themselves in the steel so the "dry lubricant" properties are still there after the greasy has gone away.

    Do it once to a new-to-you bike to reset that maintenance item to zero. Pulling the tranny is a good bonding experience, lets you get up close and personal to check the clutch plates, the engine and tranny oil seals, the throwout bearing, etc, etc. Get that merit badge under your belt and you, too, can pontificate.

    :pope
    #32
  13. jackd

    jackd Long timer

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    He's all yours, Bill....
    #33
  14. Airhead Wrangler

    Airhead Wrangler Long timer

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    Agreed. The half-assed slide the tranny back 1/2" and lube with a tooth brush method is just stupid. It really doesn't save much time if any at all and ensures that you won't do as good a job as you otherwise could. That's my favorite piece of internet BS. I don't much care what anyone, even BMW, has to say about the matter. I know that splines (especially splines that experience thrusting movement) don't like to be dry and rusty. For this reason I lube them. It's never caused me any problems... yet. To each his own. If only they could've found a way to put a zerk fitting on the outside of the tranny and some kind of cover to protect the clutch from slung grease. This would be a moot point. Oh well.

    Also true.
    #34
  15. Bill Harris

    Bill Harris Confirmed Curmudgeon

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    I wouldn't sweat it. Spline lube threads are becoming like oil/tire threads so there has to be some sniping back and forth. And I'm getting over a carpal tunnel slice'n'dice so since I can neither ride nor wrench, I have an excuse to be more testy than usual.

    So there. :razz

    I just remembered how we came to use moly lube on clutch splines. Worked as a gopher (go-fer) at a VW dealership in 1968 or so. VW's have fine clutch splines and clutches had a tendency to chatter sometimes. VW had just introduced the constant velocity (CV) joint rear axles, which replaced the old swing axles. Moly CV Joint lube was a hot new item, someone got the idea of using it on the clutch splines and found that it worked very well.
    #35
  16. kbasa

    kbasa Roubaix! Super Moderator

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    Will you guys quit wasting my time? I have to keep dropping in and throwing this useless bullshit into Explody Heads.
    #36
  17. noman

    noman Long timer

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    well, it's raining here in s vt again and am nearly done w/my annual stuff on my r75/6. w/only 4400 miles done last summer on this bike, didn't think i'd lube the tranny splines again since i did them last year. but, i was bored.

    last year i pulled the trans back until nearly all the spline length was exposed, and found a dry spline. i got some full synthetic valvoline moly grease and covered all splines with a thin coat. moly lube is now gone, splines are dry, but still look unworn. clutch was not, and has never been, "grabby".

    this time am trying a very thin coat of permatex anti-sieze. does it need it? no idea. does it hurt? prob not.

    on the rear wheel splines i can report good results using the same stuff. have always used permatex anti-seize since i bought the bike in 1980. i did sell it to my neighbor, but bought it back since he never drove it. 4 years later i sold to it another guy. he drove it some, but the poor thing was lost in a sea of bikes so i bought it back.

    rear wheel splines, annual lube w/anti-seize, 42K miles. you can see the drive and driven sides.

    [​IMG]
    #37
  18. daveoneshot

    daveoneshot Been here awhile

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    Someone once told me long ago that anti-seize should never be used on parts that move , or slide against each other.
    But your splines look good to me, maybe somebody else can chime in and keep this going.
    #38
  19. noman

    noman Long timer

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    yah, permatex anti-seize is supposed to be used on fastener assembly, to prevent galling/corrosion. but i first tried the stuff in '80 on my rear wheel splines and seems to work ok. just passin' along some results for the great unwashed.
    #39
  20. GapRunr

    GapRunr Been here awhile

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    Time to dig up this old thread.

    I've got a 1981 R80 g/s that had about 4,500 miles put on it from new until June of 1990, then sat for 22 years until i bought it. I got it back on the road and the clutch was not grabby. The lever action was very smooth and the clutch worked perfectly. 1,500 miles later the clutch splines are shot and the input shaft is also damaged. It went from working perfectly to completely SNAFU'd in about 300 yards of travel on the road.

    Does it make sense to anyone that this could have happened at such a low mileage, and so quickly? I never got any signs that something was wrong, it just started slipping on the splines when I went to pull away from a light.

    I'm starting to think this bike may have had more miles on it than the odo led me to believe.
    #40