Starter noise on a non torque limiter 2004 LC8???

Discussion in 'Crazy-Awesome almost Dakar racers (950/990cc)' started by jimrazz, Oct 13, 2007.

  1. jimrazz

    jimrazz Adventurer

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    60039005100. That is the PN of the ignition rotor including freewheel. The cheapest I found it is $375.00.

    Because my bike is a 2004, it does not have a torque limiter, and therefore is not eligible for the 100% free dealer installed upgrade to the new totque limiter.

    This really sucks because I had the parts in my hands at my local shop, and he said he could do it while I wait, again, for FREE!!!!! (he thought I had an '05).

    Now, instead, I have to pull it apart and see if there are any bad gears. If not, then it's my freewheel assembly mentioned above. The freewheel actually acts as a one way bearing. It looks like a link chain, (at least on dirtbikes with electric start). Cool setup if it's working right.

    Bottom line, it makes the exact same torque limiter clunking noise with the throttle open as described in the other threads.

    Has anyone had to replace any of the gears or the freewheel on a 2004???

    Is my situation rare for a 03/04?

    At least the gears are visually accessible once I get the cover off. I'll be doing the triage tomorrow.
    #1
  2. kkug

    kkug Been here awhile

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    I am going to keep a eye out on your results. My starter has been wierd all of its life.

    Realy hard to start in cold weather- starter clutch kicks out and dosen,t get to turn over the motor. :cry
    #2
  3. Speedzter

    Speedzter Been here awhile

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    Yes, had the same problem. Replaced the Rotor/Freewheel assembly.
    Doesn't seem to be very common, as it hasn't been mentioned a lot.
    Pretty sure you won't have broken gears.
    I should really fit the "new" torque limiter setup from the later bikes, to maybe prevent it happening again, but it pisses me off that KTM won't come to the party and fix "there" problem that they clearly addressed with later bikes....

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229967&highlight=starter+freewheel
    #3
  4. jimrazz

    jimrazz Adventurer

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    Speedzter- You da man!
    Thanks for the link! I'm going to have to whine to my dealer now to get some sort of hookup for this. If not, at least I have all of the info now for my '04 surgury. I'm pretty confident that my gears are intact because it never happens when cold without throttle just like everyone else.

    I'm only wondering if I CAN or should switch to the newer style torque limiter version. The regular kit for the 05-06 fix has no freewheel or rotor though.

    I haven't even removed the sidecover yet.

    Before adv I'd just figure things out and fix em the old fashioned way. "Take five times longer than needed, overspend on parts I don't need, then feel great about it six months later when I can actually ride the damn thing again"
    #4
  5. Speedzter

    Speedzter Been here awhile

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    #5
  6. jimrazz

    jimrazz Adventurer

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    Thanks Speedzter-

    Since I don't have the tourque limiter, my noise and failure item would be a combination of-

    1) 60040020000 Freewheel Gear Wh. 57-T Cpl.03 - $84.05

    2) 60039005100 Ignition Rotor 04 (including freewheel) - $375.62

    The prices are from www.cheapcycleparts.com

    I know the kit with cover does not include these parts, although there is mention of the items as affected parts in the TSB.

    Other than getting my dealer to replace the above mentioned parts as a whole for free, I see no real advantage in switching to the torque limiter version, as it appears that I would just be adding more parts to potentially fail.

    Now I'm wondering why they added the torque limiter in the first place. I assume it is to prevent the damage I'm seeing to the freewheel setup.

    Maybe it's the good old cheap vs. light vs. strong syndrom that engineers on a budget struggle with in early design.

    Either way, my dealer in Santa Cruz will be getting the call tomorrow. I'm hoping for the best but preparing for the worst. $$
    #6
  7. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    I doubt you need a new rotor. Not much that the freewheel slipping that would hurt the rotor. You may just get by with a new freewheel.:freaky
    #7
  8. jimrazz

    jimrazz Adventurer

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    Agreed... But, the rotor and freewheel are sold as one part. You have no choice but to buy them both. Maybe I can sell the rotor part on ebay for $1.00 eh?
    #8
  9. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    Or use it for a paper weight, doorstop, ...... :lobby
    #9
  10. Speedzter

    Speedzter Been here awhile

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    I've asked the question before and what I can recall is someone mentioning some bikes early on damaged the starter gears in a kick back, or in case of an engine "hydraulic" when drowned.
    I know it's an extra expense, which is why I didn't retro fit the limiter.
    #10
  11. jimrazz

    jimrazz Adventurer

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    Well, I'm moving a little slow, but I explored every avenue of trying to get by without spending the extra $$$. I got with my dealer, and they hooked me up with the parts, (Freewheel/Rotor, Freewheel gear, and screws). I got a good deal on the parts. Cheaper than the internet, plus, they had them in stock. I picked up the parts late yesterday, but nobody was there to loan me a puller. I'll try to get one today.

    Anywayz, last night I pulled the bike apart to some degree, and tonight will be the surgury.

    I just wanted to post a progress report.

    I will be taking pictures as well, so please stay tuned.

    Thanks everyone for your help so far!!
    JR
    #11
  12. jimrazz

    jimrazz Adventurer

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    new parts.JPG This is what you need to fix the '04. My learnings are as follows;

    1) Just because your bike is an '04, it does not mean that you have an '04 motor. Mine is in fact an '02 motor. I found this out when I looked at my original rotor, and there was no keyway slot. Then verified bu motor serial number. They went to a keyway rotor because no matter how perfect the tapered shaft is, it can still slip and cause the rotor to sieze on the crank, (mine was starting to do that and I has to buff the crank). I installed the new rotor with the keyway slot onto my non-keyway crank. I see no problem with this. I torqued it.

    2) The rotor threads for the puller are indeed 20x1.5mm. It did not seem like it at first due to the fact that my threads were slightly damaged. I was leary of forcing the puller onto the rotor, but once I got past that then all was well.

    3) At first glance, it appears that you might get away with just changing the freewheel gear. This is not the case. With the exception of the rotor, all of the parts shown need to be replaced. There is mucho wear on both the surfaces. Inner and outer races. This is why KTM needs to offer these parts as separate items to save the expense of having to buy the rotor!

    4) Use good oil! The wear on these parts can be greatly reduced if properly lubed and clean. Easier said than done since the case is not fully "wet".

    5) But a 14mm allen socket so that you can get proper torque on the rotor bolt. It will also work on axle bolts for certain bikes.

    6) Once installed, these new parts will give your bike new life! The bike starter spins up properly and therefore, the bike starts much easier. It's a great feeling after living with the starter woes for the past several weeks.

    7) This is an easy fix, so don't be afraid to do it yourself! It helps to have an air impact driver to get the rotor off. The rest is plain Jane.

    8) With the tools, parts, fluids, expect to spend just under $450.00, and an afternoon's worth of time. If you're spending more then your parts people aint helping you.

    9) Switching to a torque limiter will not solve this type of problem. You will just be adding more parts to fail.
    #12
  13. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    Thanks for the update jimraz. I hope you did the torque checks with the puller like the TB states. Don't want to here of you getting stranded by a spun rotor and needing a new crankshaft :freaky
    #13
  14. jimrazz

    jimrazz Adventurer

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    Hi CP,

    Thanks for the advice. My advanced case of ADD usually prevents me from reading TB's too far past the pictures, but I can say that a rotor torqued to 150nm is freakin' tight! I used thread locker as well.

    If the crankshaft were to ever become damaged on my bike, then I can assure everyone that there will be plenty of spare '04 950 Adv parts available for purchase on ebay!

    Right now though, my 950 is 100% dialed in. It starts and idles perfect, hot or cold, never stalls or overheats, and it absoloutly screams at high rev's.

    My bikes never go to the shop for anything unless it's warranty. Even then, I hate to leave them. My fingers are crossed with 20K on the clock!
    #14
  15. Doug Matson

    Doug Matson Long timer

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    I have an early Silver 04' and I when the TSB came out I went to the dealer and told him I wanted this done and he did it under warranty. I saw the new part in the box and the old one he replaced so I know he did it. Maybe he did it because we have been friends for a long time. I never had a problem with the starter before and never after having this done.
    #15
  16. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    A good dealer is worth his weight in gold. Take good care of your's :freaky
    #16
  17. Doug Matson

    Doug Matson Long timer

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    If I did that then I would have to send a box to you, since thats where I got the TSB!!
    #17
  18. cpmodem

    cpmodem Orange Caveman

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    Go ahead and send it. I'll make sure it gets to the folks that "really" deserve it. [​IMG]
    #18
  19. jimrazz

    jimrazz Adventurer

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    I'm the second owner of the bike, so I could not bitch about having to pay. I've pestered the shop often over the past couple of years, and rarely spend any money. Maybe if I actually bought a bike there I'd be entitled to the freebies.

    Here's a picture of the worn parts in case anyone's interested-

    worn1.JPG
    #19
  20. jimrazz

    jimrazz Adventurer

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    Here's one more pic of the wear on one of the freewheel pieces.

    (I can't figure out how to place multiple pics into a single reply)

    worn2.JPG
    #20