Strange Noises and NO-GO!

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by ElMartillo, Oct 21, 2012.

  1. ElMartillo

    ElMartillo I See Faces...

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    Year 2000 1150GS, 94K miles. No major problems until...

    Washed the bike yesterday. On my dry-off ride the bike stalled twice from a standstill, then quit all together. In attempting to start it, I noticed when I turned on the kill switch with the ignition on the fuel pump would make it's normal noise but perhaps twice or continually. At the same time I noticed a clicking noise eminating from somewhere underneath the tank. At the time it sounded like a small sparking sound. I assumed water got somewhere it shouldn't, and after fiddling and pulling some fuses the bike started fine and I was able to ride it home.

    Running errands tonight the bike did the same thing. All the same symptoms, but this time I'm fairly certain the clicking noise that I thought was a small sparking sound was actually the injectors firing willy-nilly. After many attempts to start trying different combinations of relays and fuses pulled, the clicking noises are absent and I've determined the injectors are not delivering fuel. Had to trailer the bike home.

    Any similar experiences? Any educated guesses as to the cause and therefore, the fix?

    Thanks in advance! :ear
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  2. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

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  3. ElMartillo

    ElMartillo I See Faces...

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    Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll check to see if I'm getting spark tomorrow. No spark would be another indicator of the same issue, I gather.

    Thanks again!:D
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  4. ElMartillo

    ElMartillo I See Faces...

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    Just went out to the garage to plug the bike battery in, turned the bike on to see if anything was different. The clicking noise was back, so I pulled an injector out and turned the bike on... It's firing the injectors randomly without me even hitting the start button. Looks like the crank position, or hall sensors and/or wiring is the most likely culprit.

    I'll update with results, but I'm flying to the east coast until after thanksgiving, so it will probably have to wait until I return.

    Again, thanks.
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  5. ElMartillo

    ElMartillo I See Faces...

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    In searching for replacement parts, I have found that the individual sensors required to perform the rebuild in the above link you kindly provided are obsolete and no longer available. Apparently the Bosh replacement unit sold by dealers is available through Beemer Boneyard and others for approx $230.

    As you suggested, it may just be the wiring, so I think I'll try the wire fix first.
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  6. mouthfulloflake

    mouthfulloflake Not afraid

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    yes, they used to be common and cheap to replace, now they are no longer produced that I can find.

    hopefully just renewing the wires will cure your issues, and long term wise, hopefully we can engineer some sort of alternative hall sensor to retrofit the system when the need arises.
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  7. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Long timer

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    A couple things before you start buying parts. First, the HES on the 1150 series is much less prone to failure than on the 1100 bikes. If you had an 1100 I would definitely be concerned about the HES. On the 1150, not so much.

    Second, I don't think the HES signals control the injectors. They control spark. Actually they probably have some input to injector signal, but I'd be a little surprised if the HES would cause the injectors to fire randomly, or at all.
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  8. kbroderick

    kbroderick Long timer

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    I experienced a very similar set of symptoms this morning—after riding my bike in the rain on Friday, I parked it outside and left it there for thew weekend (which included clouds, sun and rain). It was mostly dry, with just a bit of night-time moisture left on it this morning. I fired it up and had gotten just about far enough to think "damn, this is a nice day for a moto ride" when the bike cut died suddenly. Side-of-road troubleshooting eventually revealed intermittent clicking noise from one of the injectors, as if it were firing constantly once the key was set to "on" (but not every time I tried to fire up the bike). No low fuel light, which I think suggests that fuel pressure is okay, and at least when I started troubleshooting, voltage was fine (dropped to 12V over the course of repeated attempts to start the bike).

    Having the bike in neutral doesn't seem to affect matters, which should rule out the safety switches.

    I ordered a new HES from Beemer Boneyard; it may be a pricey step without being 100% sure of the problem, but given my current free-time quota, I think it's worth a shot.

    (My bike is a 2000 R1150GS with about 103k on it, BTW)
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  9. def

    def Ginger th wonder dog

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  10. ElMartillo

    ElMartillo I See Faces...

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    Update: After the bike sat overnight, It started flawlessly this morning. Makes me believe the recurring problem is either completely random, or perhaps more likely heat-related.

    Jim, I appreciate your opinions and wisdom, and certainly express your skepticism as to the diagnosis, but please follow up with a firm belief in an alternative diagnosis. What else could cause my injectors to fire randomly and rapidly with ignition and kill switch "on", without the motor running? :confused

    Kbroderick, let me know if the new part solves the problem.

    Thanks for all replies! :thumb
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  11. Bender

    Bender I can pass this guy..

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    I'd be willing to bet your problems are "moisture where it shouldn't be" problems.
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  12. ElMartillo

    ElMartillo I See Faces...

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  13. ElMartillo

    ElMartillo I See Faces...

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    The only flaw in that theory is the second time it happened the bike was completely dry, and had been ridden earlier in the day for 100+ miles (a detail I admittedly neglected to mention).
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  14. Bender

    Bender I can pass this guy..

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    My 1100 did pretty much the exact same thing right after I got it (used). Within a week it never happened again. I have never had trouble riding in the rain, but I have not washed the bike since.
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  15. ElMartillo

    ElMartillo I See Faces...

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    You may very well be lucky, did you have reason to believe your symptoms were water-related at the time?
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  16. Bender

    Bender I can pass this guy..

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    Yes. the bike ran perfectly prior to me washing it. And after a few days drying out it's ran perfectly ever since.

    The tach would just go bonkers when it died. Never before, never since.
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  17. vintagerider

    vintagerider Long timer

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    If you remove the pulley be sure to use adhesive between the die Glocke (the bell) and the pulley. That step is not in the pdf but is in the oem service manual. Pay real close attention to the locating tab. PP have ruined brand new HES units from incorrect assembly.

    I'm kinda surprised that any issue with the HES would cause "rapid firing of the injectors". Are there any signs if interrupted power on the dash? RID flashing on/off?

    - The ignition switch is a unified with a sub-harness that has know issues along with solder point on switch failing.

    - The ss switch might be flashing the power to the Motronic.

    - Relays in the relay/fuse box have been known to seize or develop high resistance

    - Power wire for the O2 sensor grounding out?

    - check where the main wire harness passes close to the bottom of the battery box- sharp edge there

    - kill switch may have high resistance. Can be temporarily by-passes (I think)

    - remove tank and check the batch of harness connectors, check for steady power in from the rear from the ss switch (refer to wire diagram) Have seen this one over-heat, melted insulation, probably from someone grounding ss switch in bypass (1100).

    - remove each injector connector, inspect for corrosion, if present repair the rubber weather boot
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  18. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Long timer

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    I wish I had something for you. I've never heard of anything like that. My shot in the dark would be water in an electrical connector somewhere.
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  19. ElMartillo

    ElMartillo I See Faces...

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    Vintagerider, thank you for your suggestions, I appreciate your knowledge on this matter, however, I believe the mystery symptom here is the "rapid firing of the injectors". If there was an issue with the ignition/light switch, in your experience and/or opinion could it cause this condition?

    This info may help: this evening I was finally able to duplicate the symptoms. The bike started fine and I ran the motor until it had a couple of temp bars showing. I shut it off. Keeping the kill switch in the "on" position, I turned the ignition on and off repeatedly with no evidence of the problem. I let it sit for a few minutes, then turned the ignition on and jiggled the key. The injectors started firing and the fuel pump went through it's start cycle several times. It seemed to coincide with jiggling the key. After maybe 20 seconds the symptoms disappeared and I have been unsuccessful in duplicating this. SO... I removed the ignition/light switch. I took the bottom plastic cover off. All solder joints and wires look good. I separated the two plastic halves of the switch, and I noticed a spring out of place inside the housing. Studying the parts, I realized it was one of the springs that should be under the "Y" shaped contact. I didn't notice any evidence of arcing or sparking, possible discoloration but no damage. I re-assembled the switch, re-installed.

    I'm not convinced the loose spring was the problem, as I could have dislodged it myself during disassembly, but could this account for the symptoms? Most notably the "mystery" injector symptom? Additionally, could a loose spring in this switch account for an ongoing overnight battery drain issue I've been experiencing?

    Thanks to all for the replies and knowledge! :thumb
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  20. Beezer

    Beezer Long timer

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    I have the same bike (no problems) but I am interested. I'm looking at the diagrams & see some interesting things: the fuel pump relay gets power from the key through the bar kill switch. The relay feeds power to both injectors and the fuel pump, but it also feeds the O2 sensor and the tank breather valve. A short in any of those would take out F6 (10A). kinda groping, but a guy could disconnect the O2 & tank valve just to see if it changes things. I have to think that if the pump relay is not chattering then the problem is either the Motronic or one it's inputs. If the relay is chattering it could still be the Mo because it supplies the ground path for the pump relay. I don't remember if you said the Motronic's plug has been cleaned yet but it should be, also switching out relays is a good tool to isolate problems and the Motronic relay is the same as I recall.

    another interesting part... the Motronic triggers both injectors to fire off pin 20, through a (Yellow/gray wire) which also connects to pin 10 in the diagnostic plug. it fires both at the same time

    I don't see how the Hall senser could make the injectors fire if the motor isn't turning, but a guy could try disconnecting that one to see

    long & short of it.... I would bet first on a bad relay or a cruddy contact... possibly the key
    #20