Stripped oil drain plug on KTM520

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Datan556, Feb 23, 2013.

  1. Datan556

    Datan556 2stroke a day keeps the doctor away

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    What now. Anybody got some ideas. I have a drill, socket set and some bits and bobs enough to take bike apart and back.

    now frustrated and throwing tools around in backyard
    #1
  2. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    More info please. You've stripped the case threads? On the main drain plug (not one of the oil screens).

    Or have you rounded the bolt head and can't get it out?

    For the former: only options I'm aware of are to use an insert (timesert or helicoil) or to use one of the oversize self tapping drain bolts. An insert (is the better fix but) will probably require you pull the motor, if it's the same as the 525.

    For the later: you can buy extraction kits which will grip the bolt head (heat area also) or you can get a new nut tack welded onto the rounded head and use that. If it's like the 525 the frame crossbar may limit space. I wouldn't personally try one of the screw extractor kits where you drill a hole as they tend to break off and then (being ultra hard) just make things worse.

    This is one of the situations where it's best to stop, pause and consider options before proceeding in haste.
    #2
  3. tommu56

    tommu56 Long timer

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    I hit a rock with mine on my klr and it messed up the threads.

    I put a timesert in using the oil plug kit to keep it straight.

    I did it by pulling the battery out laying bike on its side and doing the repair.

    New threads are fine even with the guide aluminum gasket (I'm assuming KTM has same set up) it would drip 10 or 20 drops a night.
    I figured i didn't get insert straight enough and ran a feeler gauge around the gasket and one side had a small gap.

    I tried plastic 1/2" Chevy drain plug gasket a little better but still drips.

    then I got some hydraulic fitting seal washers with bonded rubber ring in them.

    I might loose 1-2 drops a night it sure beats pulling the motor and having it welded up and re tapped and who knows if it will be straight and have the same issue??

    I do carry a 14mm plug and and tap and easy out to remove insert for repair if I have a problem


    [​IMG]


    A Dowty seal is a washer usually made of aluminum or copper and occasionally steel. Unlike an original crush washer, however, this product has a rubber lip on the inside diameter. A Dowty seal is essentially the same thing as a bonded washer, and is used in high pressure applications where other means of closing off are ineffective. Most types of Dowty seal and bonded washers are now available in a self-centralizing form, which eliminates the offset of the closure and makes installation that much easier.










    #3
  4. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    This is great but you don't have the same bike.

    The RFS drain plug is the rear facing one in this picture. You can see it just before the frame starts bending upwards. There is a horizontal frame cross member behind it that makes life fun (better view 1 minute into this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KFE5dO34Sc)

    [​IMG]
    #4
  5. avgas

    avgas amateur

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    If you're in over your head and you don't really know what you're doing, it might be worth taking it to a professional before you risk making it worse. Just something to consider.
    #5
  6. ULY-RPG

    ULY-RPG cool hands adv

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    +1
    I work for a dealer and see people try to fix their shit themselves. Bad idea if you don't have the skills. After you royally screw yourelf you'll be so mad, and then gladly fork over $$$ to have it fixed properly the first time.:D
    #6
  7. Datan556

    Datan556 2stroke a day keeps the doctor away

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    Noted. It is indeeed the head that has been rounded and the n futher rounder by me.(TWAT)

    I have been chipping away at it with a sharp flat head screw driver and still no budge. Had to relax and stand back and look at my options. It is the cross bar that makes want throw a match in the fuel tank and walk away cause there is no room to bloody work!

    Gonna weld another head onto it tonight with a mate who had the same problem last week on his KTM530 and see what is the deal. Hopefully the threads are fine. Dont want to pull the engine. My resources are limited in this country (Muscat, Oman) and as well asking a proffesional, thats if you get hold of one, here is like pulling teeth. My Arabic is shit!!!

    Patience is a virtue...if not does anybody want to buy it for a 5'er. Any offers will be accepted. Start your bids at 1 dollar!:D
    #7
  8. XDragRacer

    XDragRacer Long timer

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    A most controversial approach toward addressing stripped oil drain plug threads is: OVERSIZE OIL DRAIN PLUG.

    Might work; my assessment: "If it SEALS, it HEALS!" I've personally had "miracle cures" from this approach.

    Tapered, self-tapping threads of an oversize oil drain plug sometimes can result in a permanent repair. If not, you're no worse off, other than maybe $ 3 or $ 4 for the oversize plug.

    One of may "hits" from Googling, "oversize oil drain plug:"

    http://www.cgenterprises.com/drain_plugs_oversize_repair.htm
    #8
  9. Kawidad

    Kawidad Long timer

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    Since the head is rounded, can you cut a slot into it? Then with a long shanked slot headed screw driver turn it and hit it with a hammer to shock it loose. I would also consider using a propane torch to heat the aluminum case. Aluminum grows a lot when warmed and should help loosen things up. :freaky
    #9
  10. mcma111

    mcma111 Long timer

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    Drill the head of the bolt/cap off. Once the pressure of the head is removed the remaining thread part should be able to be unthreaded easily.
    #10
  11. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    Yeah, the lack of room caused by the crossbar makes life hard. I think having someone competent tack weld a new nut on is your best bet. There isn't much room to move so make sure he's decent. Also don't forget to disconnect the negative battery terminal. The OEM magnetic drain plug is $10 here in the US (used on a ton of KTMs). You might want to consider drilling it for safety wire, this way you won't overtighten it (again, the location here sucks as obviously you can't use a torque wrench unless you use some form of torque adapter).

    Good luck!
    #11
  12. techforlife

    techforlife CDI REPAIR

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    A sharp small chisel works here...i`ve done this 100`s of time in the shop....put the chisel sharp end close to the case...just below the hex...then smack it with a hammer to spin the bolt.you want the chisel sharp end to enbed into the steel drain plug,,and then it`ll usually spin the plug out a little at a time.....laying the bike on it`s side sometimes gets you a better look and better access to get the chisel in...

    B
    #12
  13. DYNOBOB

    DYNOBOB lucky dog

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    Could you take a dremel with a small cut-off wheel or grinder bit and re-cut the flats so a smaller socket will fit? Make sure you use a six point socket.

    .
    #13
  14. phreakingeek

    phreakingeek adventurer

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    Rounded the head and couldnt get that thing out no matter what I tried.

    I did all the usual stuff, heat/soak/screwdriver/chisel all without success. Luckily I was able to take it to the local dealer and they had it out in a hurry. I never saw what they used to do it though. Might have been higher heat than I was willing to go...
    #14
  15. Droptarotter

    Droptarotter Long timer

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    Just read this and am surprised it is the rear oil drain bolt that the head is rounded off. It's usually the allen headed screen bolt on the bottom of the motor that usually rounds out due to over tightening.

    It might be better for you to remove the motor to get a better grip/access to the rear drain plug. That's a lot of work, so hopefully the welder can get good access to weld on the bolt.

    If you order a new rear drain bolt, also get one of the replacement bolts for the under engine oil screen to eliminate the allen head.

    I have never had a problem with the allen head, but I use the proper torque when tightening.

    A torque wrench is a must when working on KTM's.

    Good luck and don't give up!

    Cheers
    #15
  16. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    One of the advantages of the tack weld, fair bit of heat also.

    Droptarotter is talking about this part. Part# 77038017000. OEM replacement for the problematic front oil screen bolt. Nothing to do with the drain plug you're having issues with but probably good to fix.

    Another good option is http://www.proracedesigns.com/product-rfsdrainplug.html which replaces both oil screen bolts (you don't really need to replace the side one). Nice plus is you can safety wire them together.

    It's pretty hard to get a torque wrench between the drain plug and the frame rail. I'm curious how you do this.
    #16
  17. Datan556

    Datan556 2stroke a day keeps the doctor away

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    Got the dremel out. cut a slit into it and didnt budge. Instead drilled a hole big enough for strong screw driver to go through and there we go!!!! off

    Hahahahaha and here is the kicker...found massive shavings in the oil. Skinny pin like shavings around the magnet and then also dug through the oil and found more! I suspect it is the cam bearing but who knows it might be gearing. Anybody got some ideas?
    #17
  18. crazybrit

    crazybrit Long timer

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    Take some pics and post at RFS forum on ktmtalk.com, this is where the motor builders hang out, they'll be able to advise you best.
    #18
  19. Droptarotter

    Droptarotter Long timer

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    OOPS........forgot about getting the torque wrench in there........access is best with a box end wrench, so for that I just use my click stop elbow!!:D
    #19
  20. Datan556

    Datan556 2stroke a day keeps the doctor away

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    thanks mate!!
    #20