Sub 500cc ADV Bike

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by tastroman, Oct 19, 2013.

  1. orangebear

    orangebear Long timer

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    It's a shame the drz350 has a 39inch seat hight as they are on line cheap.
    Why can an offroad bike be light and have a low seat as 34inch is the max I can fit means the wr450 road legal and the crf450 road legal ect are all out the window.

    I can fit the seat of a 990adv but can't touch the ground on a 125 2/exc :rofl that seem mad in my eyes
    #21
  2. Tallbastid

    Tallbastid Let's get tropical

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    I bought my DRZ400, and asolutely love it. I'm not sure why I'm still lusting after a 990/GS? With a fairing, better seat and bigger tank, I'd ride it cross country. As sexy as the big bikes are, these little (500cc and less) thumpers are pretty sweet.
    #22
  3. sweetwater

    sweetwater Been here awhile

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    Funny you'd add that as the Missus is riding an '08 T-Dub that has had many adventures recently!

    Add to that we know a fellow who has done the TAT and more on his T-Dub. Great little bike.
    #23
  4. Pantah

    Pantah PJ Fan from Boston

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    The Yamaha WRR has a good seat, and it is wide. I use a sheepskin on top of it too. I have a large tank, Cee-Bailey windscreen, electric outlets, luggage system and more. My trips on that thing are typically 2500 miles over several days. As a former dirt rider, I don't understand why you would want something else? A smaller V-strom? Why would you want a 450lb 350?

    I rode a KTM 950 for 60k miles all over the continent. The little Yamaha is probably more comfortable. It has a longer reach to the footpegs and the windscreen/large tank protect me without any buffeting at all. My only complaint is the footpegs are too far forward.

    I think you should just start riding again on whatever is handy. It will clear up your misconceptions.

    [​IMG]
    #24
  5. buls4evr

    buls4evr No Marks....

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    So Honda builds you 2 bikes in this category OP and you don't like them... The CB500X and the NC700X (a 700 with 450 performance). No bike will do everything. It is a wonder any mfgrs want to do this at all after getting burned on this size bike in the 80s (Dakez has it right). If you are a runt you need to know about KoubaLinks. The aftermarket exists to customize your bike in every way. A seat can be made any way you want it by a number of companies. You need to remember a bike on a showroom floor is set up just as it came in the crate and might fit a guy 6-4! You have to imagine how adjustable it is.It is not easy, nor is this a hobby for the lazy, non-mechanical person.
    #25
  6. bobnoxious67

    bobnoxious67 Baby steps...

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    These threads are comical and frustrating at the same time :lol3

    Why the hang up on displacement? The current 650's from Japan only make the HP a mild-tuned 400-450 makes anyways, and we're talking about an ADV bike they're all gonna start life in the 300+lb range anyways, then get all kinds of shit strapped to them, so I don't buy the "weight" argument either.

    Why the hang up on Japanese? Is it the false belief that they are somehow immune to maintenance needs and mechanical failure?

    Why the hang up on seat height? It's physics...the bike has to fit someplace (bottom of skid to top of seat), and then you need ground clearance...cuz we're such burly off-roaders! Put your damn feet on the damn pegs and RIDE!

    If you can get past the "hang ups", you would see there are bikes out there that will fit your needs already :deal
    #26
  7. ohgood

    ohgood Just givver tha berries !!!

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    Because in America, bigger is better. A $8000 300cc bike will not sell.

    You may want to look at the dr650 , xt series, and tw. 35 years is a long time, are you sure you don't want a dirt bike, and run from the ranger one more time?
    #27
  8. Dave.0

    Dave.0 Been here awhile

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    I have to second the Yamaha wr250 -- I have one set up just like pantah, safari tank, Russell seat, wolfman luggage. You don't need anything else unless you want to do 2 up.
    #28
  9. mountaincadre

    mountaincadre Been here awhile

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    Feck I thought this was a thread about under water ktm's.
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  10. tastroman

    tastroman Long timer

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    I'm not sure where you are seeing misconceptions as my op was a question and not an answer. And I ride every day, year round mostly on a 250cc scooter, which lead me to start the thread. The scooter is 360lbs, has storage, great weather protection and is fairly comfortable, it just sucks off road.

    I'm not sure why a 250-350cc 80/20 bike would need to weigh 450lbs but if you say so.
    #30
  11. tastroman

    tastroman Long timer

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    The 500x sparks my interest but I read it's not much good off road. Also' I'm not a big fan of the beak.
    #31
  12. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    I think the CB500X would be fine offroad with a sturdy skid and some long-travel forks that allow a 21" wheel and knob. The CB500X ABS might be tougher to do though, if you want to retain the ABS.
    #32
  13. NJ-Brett

    NJ-Brett Brett

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    Its fun to hash this stuff out over and over.

    A 350/450 has enough power to slab, and nice torque in the dirt.
    It should be light, but most modern Japanese bikes are not.

    The addition of liquid cooling and other EPA equipment, and silly things like electric start makes the weight go up.

    The Euro guys build things wimpy like race bikes and get the weight down, but they are not sturdy.

    People seem to want a gold wing on the street, and a ktm in the dirt.
    #33
  14. 250senuf

    250senuf Long timer

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    My right knee doesn't think the electric start is at all silly. Extra weight: Yes. Silly: NO. :D
    #34
  15. Pantah

    Pantah PJ Fan from Boston

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    Well, there is the Aprilia RSV 450 twin. It probably weighs about what my Yamaha weighs. They don't have much oil capacity, though, and they are probably not that comfortable either. Not sure what they cost when they were made, but I suspect they were expensive. KTM makes a 350cc dual sport called an EXC-F. My son had one. It weights about 250/260lbs ready to ride. Has a six speed gearbox and a top speed near 100mph. Small oil capacity and hard enduro ergonomics. But it is a DS bike. They are around $9k.

    Regarding my weight projection, you specifically referenced a V-Strom, which is a street bike tweaked for modest dirt capability. The V-strom is a heavy motorcycle. Plus it has cast aluminum wheels. If you added a proper steel spoke wheel set, you would add about 20lbs. You could look at a few other similarly intended models like the Kaw Versys, and you still end up with a very heavy motorcycle. Shrinking the bore and stroke isn't going to save much weight.

    My Yamaha weighs 298lbs wet as a stocker. It has a compact motor with large oil capacity that is actually a slice off an R1 Superbike motor. It has an aluminum twin spar chassis modeled after the YZ race bikes, yet beefed up with a steel rear subframe for hauling luggage. It has modern, lightweight suspension components like USD forks and aluminum shock with linkage. As a result of these more costly components, it is nearly as expensive as a YZF. I point this out because it would appear nobody is going to be able to produce the bike you envision that will come within 100lbs and $$$ MSRP of the little WRR. At least, that is my best guess.

    I am surprised to read your 250cc scooter weights about 360lbs. That is impressive so I see where you are coming from. But it is still a lot heavier than my Yam. Also a Suzy DR650 weights about the same I think. So the products are already out there for you if your criteria is weight and decent off road and travel capability.
    #35
  16. bobnoxious67

    bobnoxious67 Baby steps...

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    And you're basing this on years of personally owning said Euro bikes, and personally seeing the effects of them being "not sturdy"?
    #36
  17. Earth Rider

    Earth Rider Long timer

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    the first thing you said was you wanted something 80% street oriented, now you're saying it wouldn't be good offroad.
    #37
  18. Earth Rider

    Earth Rider Long timer

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    you realize that something like a baby weestrom would also suck offroad because it wouldn't be a dirt-oriented bike? seems like you don't know what you want.
    #38
  19. NJ-Brett

    NJ-Brett Brett

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    No, but I can read.
    Some are better, but most seem to have a problem doing 2000 miles on an oil change and last for 80,000 miles without motor work.

    The wr250 does seem to be the best Japanese bike out there, its modern and expensive. It just needs to be offered as a 350 for more torque, which could be done easy with no other motor changes besides retuning the fuel injection.

    The drz400 also comes close, it just needs a good transmission.

    What bugs people is the simple changes needed to make current bikes usefull in the US.

    50 or 100 cc's added, better transsissions, a little less weight.
    In the old days, some bikes were quite light for their size, without any (or very little) thought of weight saving.

    Bikes used to have very light wimpy exhaust systems, single wall thin tubing, no electric start, small batteries and charging systems.

    In 1969, Triumph could make a 500cc twin and get it under 380 pounds with NO plastic on the bike, iron cylinders, massive crankshaft, etc.

    In 1974, the sl350 was 374 pounds for a 350cc twin.

    In 1982, an XT250 was 275 pounds wet, an xt200 was 220 pounds wet.

    In 2013, the xt250 is 291 pounds (air cooled), a CRF250L is 320 pounds, and the expensive modern wr250 is about 300 pounds.

    The wr250 makes good peak power, but otherwise, the power to weight ratio has gone noplace for 20 or 30 years.

    Everyone in the US would be better off if all the bikes were 350's.

    And it would be so easy and cheap to change bikes for the US and Europe, where speed limits are a bit higher then is some other places, a little more bore and stroke with no other major changes, or the addition of a gear (or different gear ratios) in the trans, and bingo, you have a good dual sport, and a good motor for a smaller street bike.

    But we get the new 400 pound 250 from Suzuki with the new liquid cooled twin motor. The dr650 is 360 pounds!
    We are going the wrong way!







    #39
  20. tastroman

    tastroman Long timer

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    "You will have to pardon my ignorance as I have never taken a cross country trip and minus a couple gravel roads it's been 35 years since I've piloted a dirt bike but I'm wondering why has no manufacturer released a sub 500cc 80% street, 20% dirt ADV bike. I know there are a couple dirt oriented offerings and I'm familiar with the current crop of 650's but I'm thinking more along the lines of something in the 300-400cc range. Something like a baby Wee Strom.
    I'm certainly not suggesting there should be, I'm more just curious as to why a bike like this would fail as a cross country mover. "
    <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________

    Try reading the op again.

    Also, I said I read the 500x was not really designed for off road, more just given the look. I've personally never ridden one or even seen one for that matter. The origin of this thread is more about why a 250-400cc bike that's comfortable but also light weight is not offered stock as part of the ADV segment. I'm more just looking for input from those with ADV experiance. I admitted in the op that I'm a noob when it comes to off road but I will say I'm more comfortable with the weight of my scooter when the going gets tough than I am with the weight of my Buell.
    #40