Super Tenere vs. '12 Wee-Strom Adv: Why?

Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by Gundy, Jun 29, 2012.

  1. Gundy

    Gundy Been here awhile

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    Nevermind. Just found a gazillion threads on this topic.

    To sum up Tenere = faster + better offroad, if you have the $$$
    #1
  2. MariusD

    MariusD Been here awhile

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    After extensive research I have narrowed it down to 2012 dl650 or 2012 ST for long range touring. I plan on New orleans to yellowstone next year on the new bike. Since this thread was originated but never went anywhere, I actually have some very specific questions regarding these two bikes.

    The goal is long distance touring comfort 1up with limited luggage. Likely a lot of highway miles. I'm not after passing power or off road capabilities, which is mainly where the tenere seems to outperform the dl650, from what I read.

    So...

    1) Given that I could care less about power and off road capabilities, does it seem practical/necessary to spend x2 on the tenere or will the dl650 will be nearly the same for my intended use? Or might the tenere have specific features that will be a big improvement over the dl650 for touring?
    2) Is there anything I should know about either bike that becomes unbarable after several hundred miles (besides the seat)

    The only dealer in my area that sells these models does not allow test rides :huh. Sitting on both isn't much help as they feel pretty similar in terms of ergos. The x2 cheaper price on the dl650 was skewing my decision but then I thought I should look the other way and just buy the tenere just to be on the safe side... I just don't know what to do... :ear


    A little backround on me.
    I'm 6ft tall, 34in seam, 180lbs. I have never owned a sports tourer bike or even a sports bike ( I can't stand crotch rocket seating position b/c of too much knee bend). I come from a cruiser (currently own suzi M50 and a Victory Hammer), but have realized that I wouldn't want to do 1000+ mile trip on either of my current bikes. I bought the Hammer without much research and realized it's too big, bulky, heavy and just plain too damn much bike. Way more than I need and It doesn't do anyting my m50 can't do, besides burn more gas.

    Hope you guys understand where I'm coming from and can shed some light in this dark tunnel.

    Gundy: why did you settle on the tenere over the wee?
    #2
  3. PeterW

    PeterW Long timer

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    If you need a big engine the S10 is probably the best of the bunch.

    If you don't need a big engine, the DL 650 is the best of the small engined bikes - and (I'm biased) the DL 650 is probably 'more better' compared to it's close rivals than the S10 is compared to it's competition.

    Ergo's, you can get a taller seat for the 650, but it's probably less cramped than the S10 for a tall rider anyway.

    Not saying the S10 is a bad bike here, I'd pick an S10 over a DL 1000 or 1200GS any day :), but the S10 and DL 650 will do the same job with about the same effective performance and comfort, one just happens to cost half what the other does.

    I'd say your research has hit it dead centre, but you just don't believe the results ? :lol3

    Pete
    #3
  4. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    2012-> Wee's stock seat doesn't really suck nowhere near as bad as the 2004-2011-models seat did. Even some journos haven't noticed they're very different. But it's still up to the individual, how it'll fit you (as always).

    If you don't care about lotsa power, and ride 1-up, I think the Wee gets the job done quite nicely. (Actually for me it even does this 2-up, but not everyone shares my view). And for long distance it's nice, that it gets better mpg than bikes having nearly double displacement.

    Not saying the S10 isn't a great bike, though. Buying on a budget, the choice still seems quite obvious. Too bad you can't test ride them, cos it's pretty hard for others to tell you, which one's the best for YOU.
    #4
  5. dejr2000

    dejr2000 Been here awhile

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    If you look at them as tools for a job they'll both get you through your trips just fine. Main things the S10 adds is more power, traction control and shaft drive and better fit and finish. Haven't sat on a 12 Wee but have had 2 earlier models so can't speak for the seat on the 12 but the earlier Wee seats suck and the S10 seat is to me very comfortable. As stated above, YOU really neeed to find a dealer and ride both to see what you prefer. I prefer the S10 over Wee for power, comfort (for ergos only mod was bar risers), shaft drive etc. At 6'6" I'm not comfortable on a lot of bikes but the S10 works for me. S10 also feels less top heavy to me as they carry their weight lower IMO. Good luck in your search, let us know what you decide.:norton
    #5
  6. MariusD

    MariusD Been here awhile

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    Appreciate the input everyone!

    Do i need or want a big engine: No. In fact by going from the M50 to the Hammer I realized that big, heavy bulky is not my thing. I like nibleness and comfort, don't care for power or bling.

    Frankly your answer surprises me. And you're spot on that my "research results" confirm what you say. I admit I am a bit skeptical still.

    Chain vs shaft also doesn't particularly worry me much.

    I guess the things that would make a big difference to me between the bikes are as follows:

    1) Vibrations (less is better)
    2) Suspension smoothness on the highway and over bad roads (roads where I live are awfull! Including the highways) I'd like the bike to be able to soak up the road as much as possible without transfering the vibes of poor pavement to the rider. (this is really a big deal for me!)
    3) Wind protection

    If the two bikes are nearly identical in these respects then it's the 12 vstrom adventure that will end up in my garage. If the tenere has a meaningful advantage here, then I might have to spend the extra $.

    I realize a test drive is the best way to find out, just not looking forward to driving several hundred miles to another dealership. I'll do it if I absolutly have to, it's just really helpful to see if you all might have a consensus on how these two would compare when you take off-road abilities and power out of the picture and focus purely on comfort, road absorbtion, and wind protection for long distance trips.
    #6
  7. pretbek

    pretbek Long timer

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    To your point 2: It sounds like you are off-roading anyway, only on-road.
    I would imagine the more off-road capable ST would be much better at isolating the rider from road imperfections.
    #7
  8. LngRidr

    LngRidr Been here awhile

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    With the 2012 dl650 adventure if you add a custom seat and a Madstad windshield bracket and new shield you should be good to go anywhere. Also a skid plate to protect the oil filter. Even if you only stay on road.


    Jon Kohler
    sent from my iPhone
    #8
  9. straightrod

    straightrod Long timer

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    Keep in mind that some people have wind buffeting issues with the DL650. Not to sure how well the 2012 model addressed that issue. Lots of riders purchased multiple screens in an attempt to resolve buffeting as well as many riders have no issues with wind at all. So, while testing a bike may be a pain it is advisable as a sizable investment is at stake.
    #9
  10. ph0rk

    ph0rk Doesn't Care

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    Ergos and fit and finish are nearly identical between a 2012+ dl and an s10. I've had my eyes (and my ass) on several units of each over the last few months, and I've seen scratched tanks in both cases :(

    the s10's screen is out just a touch farther in front of a rider. Prices for leftovers are closer to 50% more for an s10, not quite double.

    s10 has F-you power, the dl doesn't relative to other bikes but will still smoke 95% of cars out there (this is based on an 09, the 2012+ is just a touch better in terms of power).

    To me, leaning the s10 felt... weird, but no weirder than any "new" bike.


    If I could have either bike entirely pre-farkled for free right now, I'm still not sure which one I'd pick. In the end neither is enough of an upgrade to my k9 wee to make it worthwhile (right now). I have high hopes for a new DL1000 in the coming months that might split the difference in terms of power and cost (though if suzuki follows the trajectory of the old DL, it might not really be down that much in power from the s10), will make the decision to side-grade easier.


    22k miles with plenty of gravel on mine with nary a damaged filter. A few rocks hit my feet from time to time, but no damage to the filter.


    All reports are that buffeting on the 2012 wee isn't an issue - it seems that most people end up comparing recent bikes to the pre-2012 DL650.
    #10
  11. greywolf

    greywolf Unpaved road avoider

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    I put a Russell seat and a Madstad screen and mounts on my 2012 DL650. With those additions for well under $1000, I believe under $750, there are no comfort issues remaining. Some have reported vibrations with crash guards so I went with sliders.

    [​IMG]
    #11
  12. oldmanb777

    oldmanb777 Just say NO to socialism!

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    I own a Wee. Several years ago I had the opportunity to spend a day on an S10. before they were imported. I was overseas, and had never seen one before. The S10 had 3km on it when I got on it. Imediatley i loved it. After a while I found the fuel mapping was poor, it stumbled off the line often. Again, it wasn't broken in yet. The next thing I noticed was the gearing. I had to feather the clutch A LOT in traffic, had to slip it A LOT off the line. You said you don't do off road, but when you head out west, there are lots of places where a county/gravel/mild Jeep road will get you in to things you might not want to miss. Both will do that, but the high gearing and unable to change the gearing with shaft drive were an issue to me. When I first started on the S10 I thought, I want one of these. After spending the day on it, i was conviced i didn't want one. The reasons were the price/,gearing. I couldn't justify the price. Not enough EXTRA bang for the buck. And the high gears, for what i do with it would not work. Great bike for sure. I often ride with a guy who has a GS1100 Adventure, it's geared nicely, better than the Wee, the F800 is too.
    If I was doing lots of interstate type cruising or higher paced highway, the S10 would be great.
    #12
  13. bubbaj

    bubbaj Adventurer

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    Dont forget that if you do go with the Wee, you will be saving a lot of money that could be used to upgrade whatever you feel is slacking with money left over. I am in the same boat except for some reason i have a f800gs on the list also even though i know maintenance will drain my wallet.
    #13
  14. ph0rk

    ph0rk Doesn't Care

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    Well, you aren't boring out that motor to 1200ccs ;)
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  15. Domromer

    Domromer Desert Rat

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    Can't speak to the s10, as I've never ridden one. The Wee will get you where you need to go with plenty of power and great mpg. I tour 2up on my wee all the time with no issues. That means at 270 and my wife at 130 and all of our camping gear. If I were to chose the s10 it would be for the better suspension, with more travel, and higher ground clearance.
    #15
  16. Gundy

    Gundy Been here awhile

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    Well, ironically I have my S10 for sale in the Flea Market already....simply put, I would not think of selling it if I had any legit plans to do longer trips, but I mostly just commute around town in stop and go traffic, and would like something thats a little more off-road oriented too. That, and my buddies all seem to be more off-road focused nowadays. If I had the cash, I would just plan on keeping it and add a singletrack bike to the stable.

    That said, its a bit heavy and powerful for my specific use. Not that it doesn't do just fine, but more that I sacrifice too much offroad ability for some features I don't need.


    What attracted me to it over the DL650 was:
    -two-up riding - I think most would agree the S10 wins there. The DL is very good there too, but just not as good as the S10. On other bikes my wife was whining after 100 miles. Not so on the S10.

    -better suspension and supposedly better offroad performance
    -I only have ridden mine once around the edge of a cornfield, and it did feel very planted. it felt better balanced than my KLR.... Only test rode the DL on the street, so its hard to compare.

    -torque. I like torque. The S10 has more. I comfortable cruise at 65-70 around 4k rpms in 5th gear. This bike has 6 gears, meaning that it will cruise long distance faster than I care to.

    -looks. Neither one will win a beauty pageant, but the Tenere appeals to me more.

    -Yamaha - its my third and I like how they make things. I had a DRZ400s, which was a decent bike, but Yamaha (as a brand) gets the edge in terms of well thought out features, ease of maintenance, tool access etc.

    -throwing another idea out there - take a close look at the Tiger 800 (or XC if you want the 21" wheel)....the ergos are a little tight for taller folks and pillions (the main reason I didn't buy one), but for solo travelers, it is a fantastic bike. Loved the triple on the 955i I owned and it was even better on the new 800s.

    -Somebody already mentioned it, but the shaft drive does not allow for gearing changes. The S10 has all the power it needs to pull the gearing, BUT I do find myself feathering the clutch in stop and go traffic more than I would have expected. I wouldn't mind lower gearing overall.

    Since you are riding solo on the street, I think your search will boil down to this: the S10 is a better bike, but the DL is a better value. So just ask yourself what your budget is. For the way I actually have been using the bike, the DL would be great and I'd still have a decent chunk of money to buy that singletrack bike I've been wanting.
    #16
  17. Domromer

    Domromer Desert Rat

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    Also used wees are an insane bargains. I bought mine loaded, with 8k on the clock and three years old. I paid less than 5k. The S10 hasn't been out long enough for those kinds of deals. After owning 2 different DL650 I'd never buy a new one. They are bomb proof and easy to find in excellent condition.
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  18. MariusD

    MariusD Been here awhile

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    Appreciate everyone's comments. This is very helpful and rather surprising.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    So what I'm hearing is, yes, tenere would be marginally better for my intended use, with some drawbacks living with it day to day (in traffic), but really none of the qualities it has over the strom are a MUST for what I'm doing.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    I guess I was expecting for someone to pound the table that the tenere is worth every penny of the difference for the x,y, and z improvements. It seems the differences are nothing to lose sleep over. And if that's the case, I really have a hard time justifying the price difference.<o:p></o:p>
    <o:p></o:p>
    So if you were to take a 1000 mile trip tomorrow, 1 up, through a lot of highways, cities and backroads (no off-road at all), for what reasons specifically would you chose the tenere instead of the strom, besides more power?! And would for any of you having to go on the strom be a deal breaker for doing the trip in the first place?
    #18
  19. ph0rk

    ph0rk Doesn't Care

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    Chain maintenance, but a can of dupont lube and a couple shop towels take very little space, and the wee has better fuel range/economy, by as much as 5 gallons for a 1000 mile day.


    Don't forget that for 1000 mile days you're going to want to change seats, windscreens, possibly bar heights, add heated grips, etc. for either bike.

    It is hard to imagine either bike being bad for that sort of task. Maybe if your single rider was very heavy, but that is hardly the bike's fault :)
    #19
  20. MariusD

    MariusD Been here awhile

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    Also… I know all too well about big engines, tall gears, heavy bikes and how uncomfortable they are navigating through daily traffic. That’s my Hammer. This bike is great on open roads or the highway, but you get stuck in traffic or have to navigate small busy city streets, it suddenly becomes such a tiring chore to have to man-handle this bike. I wouldn’t take a bike like this on a trip involving anything other than highway. I just don’t want/need another like that…
    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:eek:ffice:eek:ffice" /><o:p> </o:p>
    <o:p> </o:p>
    So if the tenere has “Hammer” like tendencies, then its marginally better qualities will certainly not out weigh the short comings and I really need to pass on it. Not doing that again…
    #20