Superlative Siphon Sucker System (S4)

Discussion in 'Vendors' started by johnjen, Mar 26, 2002.

  1. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    I'm going to be ordering the next batch of parts for the S4 kits in the next few weeks.... I'm in the process of figuring out how many kits I'll need to make up in this next batch. If you're interested let me know off list so I can 'count you in'.... Thanks, JJ

    ps if any one wants more details or info I'll be happy to fill in the details. See the pics here http://www.pbase.com/epfister/
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  2. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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  3. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    okay i admited ,i.m a space cadet ,and over confident ,too.
    i walk my GS at least four times on her 143,000 milles of age. the last time was the wrost BAY BRIDGE in SAN FRANSISCO, seven at nigth, on friday FUCK!!!!!!!
    ,i just felt like a boob slead pusher,this thing are HEAVYYyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!
    well, now i have a super SIPHON SUCKER for now i can not tell you; if I am walking ever again, ALL my fault ;but the extra range for sure will increase my chances and teach me more about my distance calculation skills
    the installation is simple,totally simple!!!! as simple as you can make it,,,,too:1drink
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  4. moon

    moon Space Cowboy

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    Is the procedure for fuel stops any different with this installed? Is it an install and forget type thing?
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  5. markgsnw

    markgsnw WTF?

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    cost for the kit? Installation manual ? (saw the pics, would like to read a discription)


    mark
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  6. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    The S-4 kits are shown here http://www.pbase.com/epfister/ as well as what the insides of an 1150 and 1100 tank looks like. As for instructions, send me an e-mail and Ill attach a copy of the install instructions so you can read all about it... The price is $25 which includes shipping to the US. Shipping to other countries is based on what type of service is available and how fast you want the kit. As for fuel stop differences, the only thing different is the initial setup and any time the siphon is lost (pull the plug out or run completely out of gas). The proceedure is covered in the installation instructions.... For the most part once the system is initialized it will continue to siphon gas until the siphon is broken either on purpose or if enough air gets in the fuel hoses (bike gets dumped on its head etc.) JJ johnjen@comcast.net
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  7. jimjib

    jimjib Long timer

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    I would like one please.
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  8. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    Thanks for getting the kit and noticing the little details...
    I also would be interested in hearing about your change of range.... Let me know...

    Answer to questions 1 & 2
    If the fuel gauge is reading normally then you aren't interfering with the pick up arm of the gauge. If it were, then your gauge would read low all the time or it would be stuck and not change as the miles pile on.

    What I found was when the weighted ends are initially dropped into place and then wiggled a little bit you can 'feel' and hear them at the low spot, (which is well behind the fuel pick up or sensor arm).

    When the T is centered over the tank backbone, (and the short hose is positioned more or less straight back (and down) to meet the T over the backbone) this automatically places the 2 weighted ends at the correct spot in the tank.
    If, as you say, the right hand hose doesn't sit quite right, then I'd wiggle it around a bit until I could feel it settle into the low spot. As a further check use your free hand on the outside of the tank at the low spot while wiggling the hose, you should be able to feel the weighted end 'clunk' against the inside of the tank. It's not a super critical placement and the weighted end may fall into it's low spot of it's own accord. The possibility of it interfering with the pump/pickup etc is extremely slight as it sits well below (at the bottom of the tank) and to the rear of the entire assembly. To verify this look at the right side of the tank straight on and find the low spot, then locate the pump assembly and notice the distance between them. It is possible that the weighted end is up against some of the internal hoses inside the tank and thus can't find the low spot, but by wiggling the right hand hose you should be able to feel it settle into the low spot. If it doesn't then I'd pull it back out and re-insert the end at a different angle or from a different position or in a different sequence (such as do the right side first then drop the left side in etc.).

    As a further check to see if the S4 kit is working properly wait until you run the fuel down to 1 or 2 bars then watch their behavior (mine do a little dance, up then down, then up, then down, etc.) Also watch when the low fuel warning light comes on and note what the mileage is compared to a 'normal' amount of miles. I can usually go at least 20 more miles AFTER the low fuel light comes on (perhaps, even 30 or more). I haven't tried to run it out of gas to see just how many more miles I could run, since running the pump dry is not good for its long term health and it would mean carrying another container with gas in it while gathering my empirical data.....

    Also did you drill the extra hole in the filler neck? if so your range should go up by 20 to 40 miles or so.... depending on how much more gas your tank now carry's and how much you actually fill it up.....

    Let me know if this helps and/or if you have any additional questions or concerns..... JJ
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  9. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    I would suggest that you wait until the fuel tank is down to reserve so that you aren't having to fight with placing the hose and end weights thru the fuel. It will help with the feel and allow you to feel the end weight find the low spot better. With the extra fuel in the tank your having to deal with the extra density of the liquid limiting your wiggle-ablity....

    As to the hoses that might be in the way the 2 hoses that run from the filler neck to the fuel pump assembly are the 2 possible obsticles. And the probability of having them be in the way is slim...

    JJ
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  10. eap

    eap El Adventurero Solitario

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    Way to go Razor - I'll be interested in your report. Oh enjoyed your twin max and recent trip reports too, especially the one with when you GS went for that swim.... Just finished my second valve adjustment this weekend....

    I for one have not had all that spectacular results with my S4 but I haven't been all that good about tracking it and will test it out again this weekend. So far, with the S4 I runs completely out of bars at around 240 miles and that is with around 5.5 gals. I think you reported similar gas range pre-S4 in another post....

    I know the siphon is working cuz I can see watch the tank 'fill up' again after being on the side stand at around 4-5 bars - when I take off again my RID displays no bars and then they creep back up in a matter of minutes.

    Who else out there is collecting S4 data? Let's hear some reports.
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  11. GeeItsCool

    GeeItsCool Definitely a poseur

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    Hey John et al., I got a couple of questions.

    I didn't install my S4 yet, because I'm lame. No wait, it's because I'm still collecting data so I can compare the before and after. Yeah, that's it.

    Anyway, you recommend not using the sidestand, but is that just CYA? Is there a point, say at 3 bars remaining after which you stop using the centerstand?

    Any thoughts on drilling the filler neck without a canisterectomy? Do you think it would be OK if I'm careful not to overfill (especially on a hot day when the gas will expand) or is that just asking for trouble?

    thx,
    Jason
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  12. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    Jason wonders if,
    Anyway, you recommend not using the sidestand, but is that just CYA?

    Well I suppose there is a part of it that could be construed as CYA (now here's the line I've been waiting to deliver.... You bought it Sucker! ! ! ! buuuhhhhaaaa) But in all seriousness, the side stand issue really only comes into play when the remaining fuel is well below the center backbone and the lower the more pronounced the effect... It's a corollary to the question 'why didn't BMW put the fuel pump etc on the left side of the tank?'
    I'm not really sure what the relationship between the # of bars on the gauge and the amount of fuel remaining is exactly, so i can't really say. But there are other reasons not to use the side stand as your main bike parking routine, such as oil collecting in the downside cylinder. This is a much bigger deal on K bikes but it still holds true for oil (and air) heads.
    As for drilling the filler neck with or without the canister in place. The trick isn't so much whether or not or even where you drill the hole in the neck as it is how full do you fill it and then what happens (let it sit and warm up or go for a ride and use up some of the fuel immediatly). The reason the filler neck is in there in the first place is to give the fuel a chance to expand. When we greatly reduce the expansion volume by filling to the brim the expansion has to go somewhere, either into the canister, onto the ground or in the engine. It's usually not a big deal IF you pay attention and don't fill completely and then park it.
    Of course the cannister will have some immediate engine responses that are somewhat undignified but not earth shattering but the point here is it's relatively easy to avoid the whole issue... JJ
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  13. eap

    eap El Adventurero Solitario

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    Well I used to be paranoid about using the sidestand with my S4 installed but at least that part I have been able to test out and don't worry to much anymore.
    I've always been a center stand type of guy anyway, but sometimes you just pull over and put the side stand down, say to take a photo, investigate a turn off or whatever... . I've done this a number of times at low bars - say 3-4 bars. When I take off, the gas light comes on and the tank reads empty - but that changes in just a few minutes as the siphon sucks the gas back over... It would be a problem if the siphon sucked dry, I guess, but that hasn't happened and then you'd just have to do those famous wiggling and/or leaning excercises. The S4 is easy to disable by just pulling the plug if your so inclined - best to use your pliers to grab old of the hose though so as not to loose it down the hole..... YMMV
    Ed
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  14. fish

    fish Banned

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    Good question. I'm not sure I know. What I do know is that I can go 42.5 miles after the fuel light comes on :(:, and then fill it with 6.75 gallons. I figure the range to bone dry is probably about 280 miles or so. Is there fuel left over in a lobe? I dunno...probably. That tank is pretty damn big.
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  15. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    Razorback, Thanks for doing the empirical research with photographic evidence and all the rest... Just off hand I'd say the S4 kit is working..... I do believe you've set a new all time record.. Now it's just a matter to see if there are any challengers to the undisputed rights of being Mr. Max Miles...... I do believe that one of the secrets to high mileage is keep it on the freeway in 6th gear for as long as possible at 60 to 70 or so.....

    "I just love it when a plan comes together"

    JJ
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  16. fish

    fish Banned

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    Something to consider...did you change your speedo hub? If not, then you are probably around 7% optimistic in your mileage. My bet is the real mileage is closer to 250.
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  17. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    While we are all pretty much in agreement that the speedo is optimistic, does that mean the the odo is the same AND by the same amount???? I have not verified mine to be sure, but has anyone run an actual test to determine the amount of inaccuracy? That would be a good test....... JJ
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  18. John Fallon

    John Fallon MC Rider

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    according to my test run with the gps is that the odo is off by 5% compared to the gps readings this at 100 miles then 200 miles.
    since the run from the same in put I would assume that the speedo if off by that much also.
    I got 262 before I filled up, can't remeber how much gas. Did most of the driving on highway 6th gear. The second and first bar dancing, resereve on and off a few. times
    Great, simple devise. Thanks John

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  19. fish

    fish Banned

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    Does your gps measure as the crow flies or your actual track?
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  20. johnjen

    johnjen I've Been Resigned

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    I wish I could take credit for the siphon sucker but in truth it was an idea I got from others. I mearly modified a idea a bit then gathered together the parts to make it into a kit. I will take responsibility for this manifestation of Fred's idea but he freely shared what he had done so that the S4 kit could see the light of day..... I'm glad it's working as well as it is... I really don't like running out of gas, it's a major pain.......... JJ
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