SuperMegaCrazy 690 build thread!

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by crankshaft, Sep 3, 2012.

  1. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    On the recommendation of one of the other 690 "victims", I decided to start a build thread based on my 2009 KTM 690 project. I'm pretty new to this type of thread, so bear with me as a fumble a bit, I'm no Flanny:lol3

    I've been riding and racing my 690 for a few years now and it's been a love hate relationship to say the least but I'm determined to make my 690 the motorcycle that will suit my needs. The motivation for this project starts with my attempt at running and finishing the 2013 Mexican 1000 Rally to make up for my DNF that I suffered at the 2012 edition, riding my Super Enduro. The big bike was plenty of fun on the dry lake bed but was a bit of a pig in the whoops and rocks.

    I really like the chassis and motor in the 690 but the injection system and wiring, not so much. Some say that fuel injection has no business in dirt bikes but I don't think that's true, I think a properly built fuel injection system is the perfect place for a dirt bike and I hope to prove that.

    After some head scratching and many nights of reading and research, I'ver decided to convert the 690 to a MicroSquirt fuel injection ECU
    http://www.microsquirt.info/ The sky is the limit with this tiny ECU and the open source nature of the software is an even bigger bonus. The cost is very reasonable and unit is well made. My friend lateapex(Matt) has offered to help me with the conversion and I'm happy to have it! Matt is the head dyno guy and Fuel injection specialist for Dent Sport garage in Boston, MA http://www.dentsport.com/

    Goals for the project-
    *Reliability- Yea, tis needs no explanation

    *Better quality wiring harness- No more broken wires and wads of taped wires, separate lighting/access harness from Fuel injection harness. The plan is to use Teflon coated aircraft grade wire for longevity.

    *Utilize more off the shelf parts- I'm not a big fan of having to wait for parts from KTM. Sometimes the off the wall stuff takes a few weeks and costs a fortune. I'm hoping to use GM style Weatherpack sensors or Bosch sensors, for cost and availability reasons. If for some reason, a coolant temp sensor fails, it would be nice to walk into a Napa in AZ and buy a new one for $18.00. This also applies to injectors.... $200 for a fuel injector:lol3 The throttle body will probably stay, it fits on the motor pretty well and it looks like the TPS is the only wild card. Hopefully they're reliable but if not, we can have the system run on MAP in a pinch... try that with the stock system:lol3

    *Servicing- My number one complaint about the 690 is servicing it... that stock air box is a torture device and the wiring wad in the back is a pain in the ass. The plan is to relocate the battery to the front of the frame, just behind the radiator on a custom aluminum "tray". Also mounted on the tray will be the ECU and circuit breakers for all the consumers. The tray will be attached to a frame that is bolted to the bike frame using Dzus fittings for easy removal. The Air filter will be located in the rear of the 690 where the battery once resided, for easy replacement and cooler charge air. Valve clearance checks will be a snap and the wiring will all be condensed in that localized area instead of stretched all the way to the back and front.

    *Power- Not really interested in getting more HP, or to put it another way, it's not my focus. If through the process we pick up a few HP, I won't be sad but I'm more concerned with ridability (is that a word) and reliability. Sakurama put it very well in his thread in OC.... Dyno's don't ride bikes, which is true.

    Please feel free to offer constructive criticism, I welcome it and look forward to any ideas or thoughts. The goal for this project is to test the 690 out at a 3 hour endurance ice race in WI in January, I did it last year and had a blast! http://www.steelshoefund.org/home.html

    Thanks for stopping by!
    #1
  2. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    First step, remove the great Satan:lol3

    [​IMG]

    Anyone need the stock 690 ECU's? TuneECU hot map loaded and ready to go:lol3
    #2
  3. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    [​IMG]
    #3
  4. cyclewizard

    cyclewizard Long timer

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    #4
  5. Ruffus

    Ruffus Dirty Old Mudder

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    Subscribed.
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  6. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Yo Aaron,

    Very cool that somebody is finally doing this, will be a very interesting thread to follow! :clap

    I think you will definitely need to keep the TPS, from what I have read it's very hard to get a consistent MAP signal on a big single cylinder engine.

    I can also appreciate your thought of using easy to find connectors, but those Weatherpacks are made for many times the currents that they will see on a bike and are therefore pretty huge. I'd check some of the more compact and also sealed high quality alternatives from Sumitomo and T-E, Eastern Beaver has a good selection. If you want to stay with Packard-Delphi then I think the Metri-Pack 150s are a smaller version similar to the Weatherpacks.

    Lukas
    #6
  7. Maurizio

    Maurizio 2 smoker

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    #7
  8. Barman

    Barman Way Offline

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    Gonna need a big pile of those dollars sir. :deal
    WTF, I'm in for the build. :evil
    #8
  9. Brtp4

    Brtp4 Powdercoat it.

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    Definitely in for this one.

    BP
    #9
  10. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    Hey Lukas, thanks for the input. I guess When I say Weatherpack, I mean this style sensor....

    [​IMG]

    The Bosch plugs are also good...

    [​IMG]

    The reality is, there won't be all that many sensors on the bike and/or connectors on the bike. I'll look into the Metri-pack connectors, thanks for the tip.
    #10
  11. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    Just found a cool app for engine monitoring the EFI system using a smart phone or ipad. Right now, it's for logging and monitoring but the maker of the App is working on an update to offer tuning with iPad or iPhone. Instead of dragging a lap top to a race, I can just use my phone to trouble shoot a problem or make a quick adjustment. Can you imagine emailing a tune file to another 690 rider in the woods:lol3

    http://mobisquirt.org/about/
    It's free!


    Thanks for jumping onboard everyone, this is going to be fun!
    #11
  12. bobzilla

    bobzilla Dirty Old Man

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    You have helped me through many frustrating issues with my 690 and I doubt I would still have this bike without your insite and advise .

    Count me in Aaron :clap
    #12
  13. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    You asked! :norton

    Save your $ and time and make it more reliable by bolting in a 41mm (bored to 43mm maybe??) FCR. Eliminate the high pressure fuel pump, the wiring and associated BS of tiny injector ports and multiple filters. Less weight, less mess, less to go wrong and less expensive.

    Or do it your way and I'll say I told ya so when a speck of dust you never find ends your next big race! :freaky

    Seriously, good luck with it. I have a 570 in the garage, I'll take my carbed bike over that any day. I've had it fail in deep woods, no fun.
    #13
  14. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    I really wanted to respond with a dick like response but I decided that it's better to value your opinion but take you to task on your post.

    OK, fair enough, you think a carb is the way to go and I honestly thought about doing just that. Problem number one.... Ignition, what do I use for a CDI box? Do I use a 525 CDI box and hope that the ignition curve is correct for the engine compression or do I source the crazy expensive Rally 690 box?
    I better buy two 690 Rally CDI boxes, so I can have one as a spare if the one I have fails. $1000 I think? Will the crank trigger activate the CDI bow or will I need to change the crank trigger and the flywheel or make a new flywheel?
    I could go programmable CDI I guess but why not do fuel at that point?

    Ok, problem #2- FCR 41 will cost me about $800 unless I can find a used one, so lets call a good used 41 about $400. How do I attach it to the engine? Can't use the 690 Rally bell, the head is different from what I've read. Cob an adaptor together, which is possible but will take some time.

    Altitude compensation and the ability to change maps for better technical riding sure is nice, especially on a big bore thumper with lots of power.
    My Berg has been excellent, very reliable except for the stock fuel pump that was a warranty issue and everyone knows about it. I did all the precautionary fixes to ensure it would remain trouble free based on the Aus Rally folks and the research has payed off. The 690 problems are a harness/ design issue, not a Fuel injection issue.

    I'm not a quitter, I just don't see the point in it. The 690 is great, I just need to tweak it for my liking and I don't mind spending a few bucks and spending some time working on it. I suppose I could easily drop the same amount of money on Touratech crap or sit in front of the TV on the weekends, hell even get hooked on horse. There are worse ways to spend time and money.

    You bolted FCR's on your SE.... how's that working out:lol3
    #14
  15. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    Hey Navin, Here is a good read on another Micro project, here is a good quote to start you off...

    http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/761641-96-2010-dr650se-fuel-injection-project/
    #15
  16. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    They SUCK!!! :lol3

    But they are roadracing carbs on a dirtbike and to be fair, I found I had a bad reg/rec that COULD have been contributing to the low speed stalling, along with or instead of the float adjustments that I chased around. I found I was onlky getting 12.3 if that at idle so POSSIBLY my brakelights could have caused the problem I had. It works now, I probably spent 4 hours chasing that a half hour at a time. How long will this task take you? :earI just rode it today again, still working as intended now, thankfully. Pushing that pig was no fun!

    Neither here nor there as;

    #1. The dirtbike FCRs are well sorted, you would be dealing with the final and perfected end of the R&D development era of a great piece rather than doing what the factories are doing, learning by fire with dirtbike FI.

    #2. I just sold a beautiful 39mm for $200, the 41s can be had for very little more or the same price.

    #3. It has already been done, in fact there is a guy in Europe I have suggested contacting in the 690 thread iirc, who had converted these for Dakar use and he had all the parts available for sale last year. Timing wheels, CDI, the works. Lukas might even know him, or was it maybe Lukas, I forget. :huh Guy in sweden or Denmark I think???

    How much elevation do you expect to really have to deal with in a days ride? I had the pump issues too, and added all the filters and see the clogged injectors guys get despite them, and the high pressure hoses shooting fuel 30' from the bike when they split or strand you when they fall off in the tank. The possible failure points are probably 30 times more than a FCR. Gravity always works. If you need a small low pressure pump and it fails, you can get fuel into a carb to get you out of the woods.

    If you want me to look up the guy who had the parts for sale and the knowledge to swap on a carb I'll gladly do it.

    There was a reason that even recently one of the top SX/MX teams were running a FCR in place of the OEM FI at the National SX and MX races despite how well that DR650 runs!
    #16
  17. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    If there is one thing I've learned in my short life, people don't like change. When cars went FI, people had the same good cry about it. I've been working on fuel injected rally cars for going on 15 years and they've been very reliable. I would never tell the crew chief to put carbs on an open class EVOX after a mechanical problem popped up, he would hit me:lol3 All the millions of trucks on the road, driving to very remote areas every day, all day....
    I don't base my decisions on what a bunch of flat brims do, seriously:lol3

    Trying to convince you is a waste of time though. Enjoy your carbs, have fun syncing them and pulling out clogged jets, have fun re-jetting for colder weather and different altitudes. Different strokes for different folks is all.
    #17
  18. Navin

    Navin Long timer

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    I wasn't trying to fight with you here, and I LOVE change, thats why I bought the 570 and why my 530 has CC forks and why I embraced the PDS and rode on unpopular WP conventional forks in 2000 that worked better than the previous upside down jobs against the popular opinions and sales charts, why I raced a DRZ400 in MX, why I own a SE950! All different and plenty of "change"! It has nothing to do with "change". :huh

    I have tried FI on my dirtbike. When it works it is great/fine. I can ride my carbed 530 with a 41mm back to back with my son's 570. I prefer to have less worries and don't see the performance gap that FI provides, especially for the added complexity, the wires, the pump, the filters, the pressures, the fuses and the tiny injector orifice.

    I don't need to sync my single cylinder FCR, I have yet to have a clogged jet in the last 15 years of 4t single cylinder race bikes and cold weather jetting takes me 15-20 minutes to swap to if I even bother.

    I hope you get it done easily and it serves you well forever bud! Best of luck with it and enjoy the process and results! :freaky
    #18
  19. crankshaft

    crankshaft Guns are for pussies

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    It's easier to convert a fuel injected bike to fuel injection honestly:lol3 It's getting a new wiring harness, which it needs anyway and I'm simplifying the system to a very large extent. The components are usually very rugged, micro chips don't fail very often anymore and the fuel filter I'm using will filter everything, it's a full size car filter:lol3 KTM may have a tough time getting FI right but all the other OEM's seem to be doing just fine. The YZ450 for example seems to be doing well but Yamaha has a lot more experience with I than KTM it seems.

    The conversion will work and it will be 100% better than the KTM system, no question in my mind. I'm sourcing bigger injectors right now actually, going bigger. Bigger holes, less plugging and I can adjust the duty cycle in the program unlike the KTM mystery box:lol3
    #19
  20. TNC

    TNC Candyass Camper

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    crankshaft, this sounds like a fascinating project, and I'm going to follow it for sure. I was curious about your planned placement of the battery, ECU, and electrics behind the radiator as you described. Are you concerned about any excess heat on the electrical components, especially the ECU?

    I'm no FI expert, but I've stumbled around enough with carbs and FI systems on my own vehicles to be dangerous...LOL! Like you I believe FI is an awesome system, and when done properly it's almost sex. I converted my old '89 full size GMC Jimmy (basically K-5 Blazer) from the OEM throttle body to an Edelbrock multiport FI and absolutely loved it. Good luck...this should be fun to follow.
    #20