Suzuki DL650 vs XT1200Z

Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by Red Dust, Aug 18, 2012.

  1. Red Dust

    Red Dust Been here awhile

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    Been thinking about a ST before it was even released but meanwhile I have been happy (still am) with my wee strom since it can hang out with the big bikes (XTZ, GSA e.t.c) fairly well in the dirt but it comes to a stage when you think it might be time for a change.
    Would I miss a lot of things from my DL or would everything be bliss on the bigger bike?
    Personally I do not like turbulence from any bike which I solved on the DL by removing the screen and that could be a problem on the ST as well.
    Seat has not been good on the DL but can manage a couple of hours, guess it is way better on the ST?
    Just wonder if it is really worth spending that extra cash for something that might just be a tiny bit better.
    Maybe one day sooner or later I go and get myself the big Yammie.
    Cheers.
    #1
  2. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    Previous DL1000 owner.

    The S10 is more than a tiny bit better, I don't know where you got the idea about tiny. BUT here are a list of improvements as far as I am concerned.

    1) Suspension. Adjustable. Good quality stuff, not quite Ohlins but pretty good assuming you are "average".
    2) Motor. Depends on what you like I suppose, but the S10 just tends to be a twist of the wrist motor. It works well off road, on road at sane speeds. BUSA owners may miss the top end. Very linear (which some would call boring) after gear 3.
    3) Brakes. ABS and UBS work on and off road, About 98% of riders / owners never bother disabling the ABS. The reviewers are the other 1%. They either think that the average punter is Ryan Dudeck or they never try it. They just have a big whinge. On road they are fairly powerful and progressive.
    4) Off road capability. It is really an easy bike off road and very capable. You can carry big loads over lots of crap and feel confident the whole way. Just keep in the back of your head that you are on a big bike, occasionally that pops up and rears its head. Yes it has the occasional sleep but that usually requires mud or deep soft sand. (that's when it reminds you it's not a DRZ. Your main problem off road is going to be mental. You have to keep pushing and re adjusting yourself mentally. Many people find the bike intimidating at first but it's just a big Pussy Cat off road.

    Both bikes are pretty tough and reliable. I wouldn't call 1 better than the other.
    The S10 is easier to work on.

    Where the S10 doesn't quite make it is in the twisties, It's biased toward off road and stability, similar geometry to a dirt bike so you have to put a bit more effort into changing direction. You will get used to that and not notice it too much after a while. The good part is the suspension and chassis allow you to just motor along without any thing much throwing you off line.

    But as with all things, if a nuclear powered dirt bike is not your thing and you want to race, then it's not your bike.

    Plenty of power all over the place but you are not going to win races on the tarmac with a mutlti or TEX. or off road chasing a KTM.

    If you want to be king of the hill in one area it's not for you. If you want to do everything easily it's definitely for you.
    #2
  3. Red Dust

    Red Dust Been here awhile

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    Cheers.
    Maybe I should not have written tiny since I realize a lot of things must be better on the Yammie, I just meant when we go on dirt roads where I seem to be able to keep up with the DL.
    My mate got one and he offered me to take it for a spin one day, a proper spin, I look forward to that.
    When we go on tracks (worse than dirt roads) he seems to be able to go quite a bit faster, even faster than another mate on his GSA, that is a good plus in my book since I love to take my strom on dirt.
    Really just need to justify that it will be up to AUD$15K better after trade in, will do the maths but by that time maybe a new ST has been released......
    #3
  4. SuperCruise

    SuperCruise Been here awhile

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    Buy a second hand S10 if you want to reduce the price differential. There's plenty of low km, farkled up and ready to be loved S10s out there on the second hand market.
    #4
  5. Pecha72

    Pecha72 Long timer

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    Mud or soft sand is where a DL650 is a handful, too. But the S10 is even heavier.

    Personally, though a lot of peoplee will disagree, I think their weight alone dictates that both of these bikes are quite street-biased.
    #5
  6. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    The S10 is not "street Biased" it's heavy. The way the S10 is set up makes it easy off road until you have to physically hold it up. I can tell you from experience the Vee Strom feels a lot harder off road than an S10, and that's before you end up on the ground.

    Look at the geometry of an S10 compared to the Explorer for instance.
    #6
  7. Red Dust

    Red Dust Been here awhile

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    Both bikes might be street biases compared to a dirt bike but you be amazed where you can take these beasts!
    I have taken the wee strom where people thought you can not go but suspension, ground clearance and myself have been taken a hammering, still going strong but can just imaging with the extra ground clearance, better suspension, ABS/TCC e.t.c. from the XTZ can do. Just if I ever fall the cost will be higher.
    Can not wait until a dirt/fire trail test!
    Cheers.
    #7
  8. Red Dust

    Red Dust Been here awhile

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    Yes the 2nd hand market is tempting, seen a few around $16-$18K, but need to sell my wee strom.
    Just been looking at one demo with the side panniers and sump guards from Yamaha, is that sump guard any good?
    The benefit with a dealer is that finance, trade in e.t.c. is pretty smooth but of course you pay a bit extra.
    #8
  9. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    Not really. Think of it as a beefy stone guard and you won't be disappointed. Land the bike on it hard and you will be.

    See this link that Jaumev put together for better options.
    http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=804637
    #9
  10. Anticyclone

    Anticyclone Ride more worry less

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    I'm a previous DL650 owner and GragamD hit the nail on the head. The only downside the Tenere has compared to the weestrom is fuel mileage. With the DL650 I got about 50mpg (21km/L) , with the Tenere I'm closer to 40mpg (17km/L).
    #10
  11. Red Dust

    Red Dust Been here awhile

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    Yes that is one thing I really like about the DL (fuel consumption).

    At most I got 520 km out of a tank but also had 320 km once so it can be thirsty in head wind 2-up full of gear.

    Just hoping it is better than the DL regarding turbulence and hopefully does not have too many handle bar vibes.

    Still not convinced to 100% that it is 2 X better price wise (in Australia the XT is roughly double the price) and that it can do so much less than a XT.

    Have been shopping around and I`m getting closer but need that extra convincing.
    #11
  12. BadKarmaPa

    BadKarmaPa Been here awhile

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    I've put 59k miles on my '07 DL650. I love that bike. It have mor eon road purformance than I can fully use, ( I ain't no peg dragger), and it has never failed to get me anywhere I needed get off pavement, (I'm not a dualsport rider, I don't seek out muddy single track).

    But she's showing the miles. Front rim is dented, front header is dented, the exaust clamp under the oil pan rusted off, ect.

    My Super T is now 2 weeks old. I wanted to up grade. I wanted ABS, traction control, shaft drive, and I wanted it on a bike that would give me the same confidents in the ruff. I am very pleased with myself for my choise. The S10 center of gravity realy does make it feel lighter than the Wee. I think it's low CG actually makes it feel more flickable it twisties,(though I'm still stragleing with proper gear selection). I haven't been off pavement much, (just did the 1st oil change this weekend), but it's giving me every indication it will do this even better than the Wee. Yes it is a BIG jump in price and WAY more bike than I can take full advantage of, IMHO it is "Best in Class" big bore ADV/Tourer.
    #12
  13. ArmyMedic

    ArmyMedic Flyin' Elvis, UT Chapter

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    From a previous DL 1000 owner, if nothing more, the aerodynamics of the Tenere are far superior to the Vstrom. The Vstrom is hands down the scariest bike I ever rode in heavy winds/crosswinds. Way too many times was I almost blown off the road. I sold the Vstrom for that very reason, after trying every mod on the internet to try to correct the poor handling.
    #13
  14. PeterW

    PeterW Long timer

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    There's no doubt the S10 is "better", but the new DL 650 has improved on the old one a LOT - and is also a lot lighter than the S10.
    Most of the issues that have been mentioned (like aerodynamics) have been addressed in the 2012 DL, rear suspension is better (though not wonderful), and the front is actually good now.

    Personally I'd rather toss a lighter cheaper bike down dirt roads than a heavier one costing twice as much - provided both were up to the job of course. That and the lower fuel use of the DL made it a clear winner for my riding.

    I'm not bagging the S10 here - it's certainly better than a lot of the other contenders - but personally I didn't think it was enough better to justify the sticker price difference.

    Pete
    #14
  15. MoBill

    MoBill Smiles when says dat

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    Had the DL650A for 45,000 miles, and just Sold my Tenere with 15K. The Tenere was far more intuitive (to me) on hard dirt surfaces or rock...loved it, The DL really felt just as planted on groomed dirt, but on rocky or hard loose stuff the Tenere was just plain better (I say all that because there is ubiquitous sand here, aka kryptonite).

    And bombing down the highway at 100+...that f'n Tenere was a time machine. Still, some reason, watching it pull away on Chip's trailer, I didn't care, had my fun with it, but it wasn't me.

    So...picking up a 2012 DL650 tomorrow. Cannot wait. As mentioned, fuel economy, lighter...really happy with the plan.

    My only beef is WTF with losing .5G of gas. Who thought that was a good idea. The only time you can have too much gas is when you're on fire.
    #15
  16. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    Probably because the new one gets better mileage and about the same range anyway.

    I am sure ~TOBASCO~ can do an 8 Gal conversion for you :D
    #16
  17. Parigi

    Parigi Hoinar

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    I would be curious how does the 2012 DL feel after the ST.
    #17
  18. Rustycage

    Rustycage Banned

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    +1
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  19. Red Dust

    Red Dust Been here awhile

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    Agree with that it probably feels better to take the cheaper bike in my case a AUD$6K bike in rough terrain instead of a AUD$20K bike. I make my comparison with the older DL vs ST and so far it is a 50-50 chance that I`m swapping.
    Do not favor: more than double insurance premium, higher fuel cost, many thousands more in purchase cost plus the ST is really beautiful at least compared to the DL so take it on bad tracks with the potential to scratch the bike or even worse but it is mainly in the beginning you are really careful.
    The plus sides would be: shaft drive, comfier, better for the rough stuff and the looks....
    Will test ride with ms (she said ok to purchase but she is not the one that has to pay for it all) tomorrow.
    Do not understand why the bikes are still quite expensive when our AUD$ is very strong?
    Why do we still have to pay rego for every single bike since I can only ride one at a time, same goes for part of the insurance.
    Anyway motorbikes is a big part of life and is almost priceless.
    #19
  20. GrahamD

    GrahamD Long timer

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    The DL is still a great value bike, in either size, as with the DR650. I almost did the DR650 swap because I wanted something that felt more at home off road.

    The funny thing is the DL was not such a great value bike at first, but they held the price at that point for so long that it got better every year. Putting no development into the bike for 8-10 years also helps and minimal development every 8 will help a bit more.

    Can't ague the value for money case. Unfortunately if you want "better" or different there is not so much value in the big boys at the moment, except the Versys 1000, if you want to play in the "jacked up street bike" segment that seems like pretty good value as well.

    But in my case the S10 did so much pretty well and was so close to what I was after that I knew it would be a long term proposition. It was better value on Oz than others so that was not a problem.

    As it ages and gets beaten up I am sure I will push it further, but I know now that I am less likely to dump the thing that I was on the Strom.

    Each to their own. A beaten up old DR650 was looking pretty good to me as well for a while there. I almost had two bikes but managed to avoid it. :lol3

    As far as the insurance Companies go, I noticed that QBE? was asking me about mileage and Shannons do a similar thing. I am sure that it doesn't add up to the same price as one bike doing the same Km though.
    #20