Suzuki DR650SE Rear Hub on a Honda XR650L

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by LexLeroy, Sep 8, 2014.

  1. LexLeroy

    LexLeroy Nerds Rule

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Oddometer:
    7,974
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Yes, I know that the most cost-effective XR650L cush hub solution is the Rad Manufacturing unit. I was looking, however, for a parts bin solution that uses current-production pieces and requires no serious machining other than spacers. I think that the DR650SE rear hub fills the bill.

    Rather than drag this out here's what I did:

    • Used hub bearings w/ a 17mm ID and replaced the carrier bearing with a 17 x 52 x 16 unit
    • Sleeved the inner spacer to 17mm
    • Obtained a DR350 rear rotor - the one w/ 10mm mounting holes that uses the stock DR650SE rotor bolts
    • Obtained a Husqvarna CR250 (JTR 822) rear sprocket
    • Machined outer spacers to position the rotor in the normal XR650L position
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The question that I've got is this - which rim width should I choose when I order the 18" rim and spokes? The XR650L has a stock width of 2.15" and the recommended tire size is 4.60 x 18. I've been running 5.10 / 130 tires, which get pulled into a rounder profile by that narrow hoop, so I've been considering a 2.5" rim. And then there's Sun's 18" rim which comes in a 2.75" width. I do mostly Forest Service and gravel county roads but I've got to travel lots of pavement to get to decent riding so I'm looking hard at the Dunlop D606. Suggestions anyone?
    #1
    Nesquik, plugeye and Hanz like this.
  2. James Adams

    James Adams Long timer

    Joined:
    May 29, 2006
    Oddometer:
    14,747
    Location:
    Salida
    I'd stick with the (stronger) 2.15" and then just run the right sized tires if the round profile bothers you.
    #2
  3. LexLeroy

    LexLeroy Nerds Rule

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Oddometer:
    7,974
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    I went w/ the Excel 18" dimpled in 2.5" to be able to comfortably mount tires like the D606 that have thicker beads. Just got a notification that the rim & spokes will be here next week. :clap
    #3
  4. alvincullumyork

    alvincullumyork Ol Two Flags

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Oddometer:
    5,016
    Location:
    Richland WA
    Lex,

    What was your total cost vs the rad setup. It looks very good by the way.
    #4
  5. LexLeroy

    LexLeroy Nerds Rule

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Oddometer:
    7,974
    Location:
    Lexington, KY



    I'm going to be about $650 out-of-pocket, including the rim & spokes, assuming that it actually works without any last minute "gotchas" - but here are some caveats:
    • I bought a new hub, but scored a used sprocket carrier for $50 on everyone's favorite auction site.
    • I already had all of the tools to press in the new 17mm ID bearings.
    • I had to fabricate new outer spacers and sleeve the inner ones down to 17mm - easy when you've got a lathe or a friend w/ one.
    • I've got a Park truing stand that I use to build and maintain bicycle wheels and it ought to do the job for the motorcycle wheel build.
    • According to many DR650 riders on this and other sites the DR650SE sprocket carrier bearing is good for about 10,000 miles, maybe less when subjected to harsh off-road conditions. If it is ignored it can fail spectacularly and trash the swing arm. One of our fellow inmates in Oz has developed a fix that looks promising but I haven't incorporated it into this first implementation - maybe this winter.
    Bottom line is that it can be cheaper than the RAD solution if you've got used parts and the tools & skills to do a wheel build as well as some light-duty lathe work. If you want a bolt-n-go solution, however, Steve's price for a RAD cush XR650L wheel is almost a giveaway.
    #5
  6. Keith

    Keith Slabbing it

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Oddometer:
    990
    Location:
    901
    Nice work.

    Who's this Steve guy you mention?
    #6
  7. LexLeroy

    LexLeroy Nerds Rule

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Oddometer:
    7,974
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    #7
  8. Keith

    Keith Slabbing it

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2006
    Oddometer:
    990
    Location:
    901
    #8
  9. Rusty Rocket

    Rusty Rocket Life behind "Bars"

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2005
    Oddometer:
    13,157
    Location:
    Left CT, moved to TN
    If you would consider an 18" rim in 2.15 width, the DR350 hub (cush drive models) is the exact same hub as the DR650's. You can get away without respoking and it already comes with the DR350 rotor. I have a DR350 rear wheel that I use on my DR650 with great success.

    I have a practically brand new DR350 rotor and sprocket hub from the wheel that I bought to fit to the 650.

    might be coaxed into selling. (not the wheel though)
    #9
  10. LexLeroy

    LexLeroy Nerds Rule

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Oddometer:
    7,974
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    I went ahead and incorporated fellow inmate DR Steve's needle roller bearing fix into the sprocket carrier - what the hell, now was the time. Look closely at the carrier's center and you can make out the needles. The stock inner spacer is replaced by a new spacer that also centers the needle bearing's inner race. The spacer's wide end presses against the inner race of the 17 x 52 x 16 ball bearing in the outboard side of the sprocket carrier while the needle bearing's hardened inner race presses against the wheel bearing's 17mm inner race.

    [​IMG]

    Before I mounted and balanced the tire I dry fit the wheel and cush hub into the swing arm and tightened the axle. The wheel and the cush hub turned independently so all was goodness.

    [​IMG]

    Here's the bike with the tire mounted. It's back to looking like a proper dirt bike with the requisite 18" rear wheel. :clap

    [​IMG]

    The money shot. Other than the Excel decals on the wheel it's hard to tell that this isn't an OEM fitment. Wake up Honda! I'll use up the Shinko e700 that I had mounted on the stock Honda wheel while I consider the next set of tires... D606 in the rear w/ an MT21 up front?

    [​IMG]
    #10
    plugeye and Hanz like this.
  11. LexLeroy

    LexLeroy Nerds Rule

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Oddometer:
    7,974
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Spacer dimensions for the conversion using a stock sprocket carrier WITHOUT DR Steve's needle bearing conversion. (If you decide to do the DR Steve needle bearing modification the left spacer needs to be 1 mm thinner and the middle spacer looks totally different per the above photograph.)

    [​IMG]

    I seat the right side hub bearing first since getting the rotor centered in the rear caliper hanger is more important than any run-out to the left.

    [​IMG]

    Here are the areas where you are likely to have interference since the sprocket gets shifted to the left. Some light file work and you'll be good to go -

    [​IMG]

    Wheel bearings are 6303 2RS bearings, Sprocket carrier is 6205 2RS for the stock unmodified sprocket carrier. Both are double sealed. I like Nachi (Japanese) bearings from VXB Bearings.

    Nachi part numbers are 6303 2RSJ EM and 6205 2RSJ EM
    #11
    Kawidad and Skowinski like this.
  12. cakebelly

    cakebelly n00b

    Joined:
    May 9, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1
    Lex- I have all I need to make the DR- cush conversion on my XRL, thanks very much you and your good work and detailed postings. Would you please tell me the part number for the 17mm bore roller bearing you put in the sprocket carrier?
    #12
  13. LexLeroy

    LexLeroy Nerds Rule

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Oddometer:
    7,974
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    It's an NA4904UU bearing from VBX. I also substituted a 333-2RS (17x52x16) bearing for the stock Suzuki (25x52x15) sprocket carrier bearing - that's why the left-hand side needs to be 1mm shorter.

    I used a mill to do this work. What I did was clamp the carrier to the mill table w/ the inside facing upward. I picked up the center of the bearing bore w/ a test indicator and then cleaned the as-cast inner bore with a boring bar, removing as little as possible. Then I turned a spacer out of aluminum on the lathe for press fit into the newly cleaned inner bore, which I chilled and pushed in w/ bearing setting compound. You can see it if you look closely at the picture.

    I double-checked to ensure that my set-up hadn't moved, and then I bored out the spacer to a press fit for the bearing. It only needs to be seated flush in the sprocket carrier - the bearing's 18mm long inner sleeve provides enough clearance between the needle bearing and the inner wheel bearing.

    I used modelling clay to check for interference between the sprocket carrier and the hub since things are sort of tight in there, particularly at the base of the snout that holds the needle bearing.
    #13
  14. JOCKEYSTICK

    JOCKEYSTICK Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2017
    Oddometer:
    31
    Can't get RAD hubs anymore so this is pretty much all we've got. Unless you try out that new CushDrive sprocket system.
    #14
  15. Bell driver

    Bell driver Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    987
    Location:
    Germany, Nordish By Nature.
    You get a cush hub from Warp9. Works great:clap
    #15
    LexLeroy likes this.
  16. ex250mike

    ex250mike Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2007
    Oddometer:
    782
    The old xr250L uses a cush hub. It may be a close fit.
    #16
  17. LexLeroy

    LexLeroy Nerds Rule

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2011
    Oddometer:
    7,974
    Location:
    Lexington, KY
    Warp 9 realized that there's a demand and fortunately stepped up. I'd try one of these had I not already put time and effort into the Suzuki hub swap. Their price seems pretty reasonable.

    I haven't seen the Warp 9 offering but I'm guessing that it's built to preserve the factory chain line. If that's the case then the Fritzco thicker front sprocket would be a good compliment to further reduce counter shaft wear. The Suzuki transplant, on the other hand, works well with the XR650R sprocket (mounted backwards) since the rear sprocket gets forced to the left by about 3mm.
    #17
  18. JOCKEYSTICK

    JOCKEYSTICK Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2017
    Oddometer:
    31
    I'm talking with Rachelle from Woody's Wheels and they don't do RAD hubs anymore because they ran out but I brought up Warp9 Cush hubs for the Xr650l and they are checking on it but mentioned that Warp9 may not be offering it anymore due to bad design.

    When you go to their site it is not straight forward to see their Cush drive hub options. They definitely beat around the bush on whether they even have one for an xrl.

    You can't buy a Cush hub from Warp9 all by itself either.
    #18
  19. Bell driver

    Bell driver Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2010
    Oddometer:
    987
    Location:
    Germany, Nordish By Nature.
    Are you trolling ?
    It's all straight forward and all perfectly clear on their site. You build the wheel to your spec WITH a cush hub for the L.

    Nobody ran out of RAD hubs. RAD has long since been out of business.
    Dude...:fpalm
    #19
  20. JOCKEYSTICK

    JOCKEYSTICK Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2017
    Oddometer:
    31
    Yea that's what I'm saying, you can't buy a Cush hub by itself. Nor can I find just a warp 9 Cush hub for sale by itself in the rest of googles first few pages. I gladly welcome a correction.

    Just because a manufacturer goes out of business doesn't mean there aren't new-old stocks floating about. Granted it's been close to a decade.

    However, back on topic, for those of us damned to the confines of an apartment there might be a market beyond just myself for a spacer kit....:D
    #20