Tailgating

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by TeneRay, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. rgoers

    rgoers Been here awhile

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  2. KLRKowboy

    KLRKowboy clueless rabble

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    Pot, have you met Kettle?
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    :huh:lol3
  3. randyo

    randyo Long timer

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    not when what stopped the vehicle in front of you was a head on collision or an object that fell out of the vehicle in front of him or a moose, cow or bison wondered into the road. Or someone backed out of a driveway in front of the car in front of you

    you cannot assume the vehicle in front of you won't stop quicker than you can
  4. randyo

    randyo Long timer

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    there is one drawback to not tailgating

    when you leave safe separation, you get more idiots that think they have time to turn left in front of you
  5. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

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  6. KLRKowboy

    KLRKowboy clueless rabble

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    Don't make me get von baden on yer ass..............:ddog
  7. windmill

    windmill Long timer

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    Problem with that is if the vehicle in front is hiding the rider they may also assume the space is clear.
  8. Griffin44

    Griffin44 Been here awhile

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    I believe your calculations are wrong. We teach our professional emergency drivers an absolute minimum of 2 seconds following distance + differential in braking capacity of a heavy vehicle.

    Our rationale for that is several points:

    1. it is accepted by every professional driver training organization we know about as standard
    2. reaction time alone is close to one full second for a fully aware, high functioning human. That's just to the point that brakes are beginning to be applied.
    3. If that one second has eaten up your total following distance, it means you're about to eat bumper because you're just beginning to brake and they've been braking for one full second and are therefore travelling far slower than you are. It doesn't matter how good your reactions are or how good your brakes are, you're into their bumper.
    You seem to be presuming that your reaction time will be the same as the reaction time of the vehicle in front of you. That is not correct. You're reaction time starts when they initiate an action - i.e. you see them braking. That is, unless you are reacting to whatever made them want to brake at the same time that they brake. That's a serious stretch and not something to depend on. How are you gonna know when his girlfriend bit him?:evil

    I strive for at least 2 seconds. I too often get well within that and am then dependent on seeing and reacting to anything that might cause that vehicle to brake. A very bad position to be in.

    By far the most dangerous vehicle on the road is the one in front of you - whether oncoming or the one you're following.
  9. Wraith Rider

    Wraith Rider Banned

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    If it transports something you can't drive over, keep your distance. In all the other cases, keep your eyes open. No problem there.

    Luckily, physics isn't about believing, so your believings are wrong and my calculations are right.

    Wrong. Reaction time alone is 300ms average, with some individuals under 200ms.

    Wrong. We have to add 300...500ms for moving the foot/fingers from throttle to brake.

    Wrong. There are another ~200ms to build up full braking power, so it's about 1s with a tiny bit of braking that's assumed to be "not braking" as a safety margin and after that it's full braking. The one in front of you was braking for one full second and that's the reason why you stay one second behind to be able to stop right behind him.

    Wrong. Better reactions and better brakes allow for a shorter safety distance.

    Generally wrong, but that is what I assume for the sake of the discussion.

    Since that (seeing and reacting to anything any other could be caused by to do something) is my regular state, this position is quite comfortable.
  10. randyo

    randyo Long timer

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    we got it, your superhuman
  11. randyo

    randyo Long timer

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  12. Griffin44

    Griffin44 Been here awhile

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    No. I'm just not a dick and expressed it in a polite way. :D
  13. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    Having a SO worth going home to will often moderate a person's actions!:deal

    Jim :brow
  14. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    But some people ARE morons! It is not a personal attack, but a statement of fact!:lol3

    Jim :brow
  15. DAKEZ

    DAKEZ Long timer

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  16. bumbeen

    bumbeen Banned

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    So you won't mind testing this out then? You in the southeast?
  17. D_A

    D_A Long timer

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    Not one single part of your argument holds water. You are repeatedly using peak reaction times for simple predefined tasks and applying them to complex decision based tasked. That is not "physics", it is the misapplication of data.

    The statement quoted above is the most telling. By your own admission, you have already lost that first second where the vehicle in front has been braking before you have started braking yourself. At your declared one second gap you are already dead before you, with your claimed superhuman reflexes, have started to brake.

    If this is genuinely how you ride then you'd better make peace with whatever deity amuses you, because you'll be finding out for sure if they exist sooner rather than later.
  18. bumbeen

    bumbeen Banned

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    To be fair the car doesn't stop in one second so you won't hit them in the first second, but you will be too far behind to catch up with their braking and will hit them between the 2nd and third second of braking time
  19. Mat

    Mat Long timer

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    That is only valid for us normal mortal tossers.

    When the offending drivers on these police video reality shows on German tv get stopped, they always argue that they were just better than others because of "physics", or their superior reaction times (which in turn get negated by non-made up physics - see D_A'a post for explanations - but no mind).

    Now I know where that is coming from :wink:

    One thing is true though: German police only start fining when it is less than 1s. On the other hand, fines and danger are not known to be perfectly correlated, are they.

    Anyways, as long as you leave some distance to motorbikes it is fine with me. Tailgating is not a black-and-white business, there are degrees of it. Depends on the situation and who you are following.
  20. randyo

    randyo Long timer

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    Wraith best hope that the person behind him is as superhuman as he is or he will be rear ended