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Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Dorsicano, Feb 3, 2011.
How is a water cooled BMW not getting close to a KTM? Yes, I know, the chain vs. shaft drive thing. Nominally more comfortable seat on the BMW, different farkle options from the same catalog.
Okay, I'm being sarcastic, but they become very very close with water cooled engines. YMMV?
Did anyone else see the piece about new the BMW models on the Motorrad website? (Translated version.)
I've pulled this from the rather inelegant from the Google translation tools, but you get the idea.
A naked R 1250 R with shorter travel suspension, the GS as she is, just as conceivable as a R 1250 ST as a classic sports tourer. And at the very end, for 2014, is Boxer Sport drivers can also hope for a very sporty version with 150-horsepower boxer make water.
There's been no sign of a water cooled RT. It's possible that one will turn up at Intermot, as the GS and RT were updated together last time.
The R1200R went onto the new heads a year after the GS and RT, so will probably be in the second or even third wave of updated models. There have been spy shots of a new Roadster model, but it's got the current engine, and the existing bike is continuing next year.
The Boxer Sport though...
What's the advantage of staying a boxer?
The answer or one of them would be ease of servicing and repairs. There are very few bikes out there that you can check the valve clearance on without dismantling half the bike.
Oh by the way the GS is not only a boxer, the 800 can be a GS as well. It's the R that is a boxer.
Indeed a 150hp Sport boxer, now that could be fun. In a GS more power really isn't an issue and interests me very little, a R1250S done properly though...
The last few words "horsepower boxer make water" is that implying that only the 150hp sport will get the water cooled engine?
The GS is the Top-Seller across Europe and the most important model for BMW Motorrad so it only makes sense to introduce the new engine in that model.
The same advantage that Harley Davidson gains by retaining the V-twin....a loyal following.
I've been riding boxer motors for 35 years. They have a nice lazy way of making power and making it in a way that's really usable, even in crappy conditions.
Yeah, you could make it a parallel twin with counterbalancer like the 800, but the boxer motor is very, very distinctive. That's the heritage.
It'd be great if the R1250R turns out to be a Monster beater. CW had a photo and it looked like a /7 or something. Big tank and a flat seat at about the same height. It looked like it had male slider forks instead of a telelever. I could get with that. That's a BMW style heritage bike.
Isn't what you mean the R1200R that will come out next year? with the same 'old' 2010 engine?
The boxer advantages, with or without water:
Lower center of gravity
Easy access for service or repairs
Best foot protection in an accident: this is backed up by studies by Hurt and others.
What I think is a negative with the new design, if I'm not mistaken on the design having not studied it, is the sharing of engine oil with the clutch and transmission. There are advantages to having them separate. I also like the single plate dry clutch, very light to work all day and fewer parts to replace.
Or course a wet clutch can take more abuse but abusing a clutch was not a popular thing to do until ADV made abuse of fine machines obligatory for attaining manhood.
I'm not so sure about the low center of gravity. The aluminum heads and cylinders on any engine are fairly light but is there any other engine which has the heaviest part of it (crank and bottom end) located so high?
The prime reason for the Boxer engine is perfect primary harmonic balance. For a given displacement, an inline configuration cannot approach the smoothness of the Boxer. This is why Porsche, Subaru and most light aircraft engines are Boxer Configuration. In the case of the light aircraft, there is the small matter of FAA certification and difficulty of obtaining said cert...
You have mastered the art of sarcasm.
Your absolutely right in theory right up until you add ignition. If they had fired both pots at the same time or a 4 cylinder boxer you get a smooth engine. What we have just now though is far from smooth. I have seen Harley's vibrate less than a BMW boxer.
Assuming that the engine was not running, I suppose.
I hafta say, that first pic looks really great! Almost makes me want to hold off getting a '13 GSA and wait for the WC GSA's to come out - almost...
OTOH, being a beta tester sucks bigtime!!
2 cylinder boxers aren't that smooth.
Obviously the balance on the BMW boxer isn't that good or there would have been no need for BMW to add that single balance shaft to the 1200 hexhead or camhead.
The balance on the 6 cylinder boxer is excellent with some of the pistons always in motion and very little rocking couple.
The balance on the 4 cylinder boxer is OK but now some rocking couple enters and more 2nd order as there are points where all the pistons stop completely at the same time.
The balance on the 360° 2 cylinder boxers leave a lot to be desired, especially on large cylinder configurations, as the pistons are not directly across from each other due to being on different crank throws with an offset between rod centers. 2 cylinder 360° boxers also have both pistons completely stop and change direction twice per revolution. Lots of higher RPM buzz and rocking couple excitement.
The C/G on the BMW 2 cylinder boxer isn't all that great either as it has a deep wet sump so the crankshaft is high in the crankcase. The crank must also be high to keep the cylinder heads from dragging the ground in turns. That heavy alternator is also way up high way off the engine roll center. The transmission input shaft is high with the counter shaft not much lower.