The All New LIQUID COOLED R1200GS threadfest

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Dorsicano, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. lordabhi

    lordabhi Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 20, 2007
    Oddometer:
    69


    BMW’s New Liquid-Cooled Boxer Spotted in the Wild

    Share23<SCRIPT type=text/javascript src="http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/connect.php/js/FB.Share"></SCRIPT>
    7retweet


    Posted Friday, February 4th, 2011 @ 11:43 am, by Jensen Beeler
    Home » News » BMW’s New Liquid-Cooled Boxer Spotted in the Wild
    [​IMG]
    The writing has been on the wall for some time for BMW to replace its air-cooled boxer twin with an updated liquid-cooled version, and that hallmark day appears to be coming, as SoloMoto (additional photos on their website) has captured the next-generation German motor out testing in the wild (enhanced photo above) on the Spanish roads near Tarragona. This photo appears to confirm reports that BMW is testing a new R1200GS model, which will feature the liquid-cooled boxer twin, and has obvious differences from its air-cooled predecessor.
    While the photo is noticeably of poor quality (isn’t funny how spy shots are always taken on bargain bin camera phones?), it does appear to give away the fact that the shaft drive has been moved from the right to the left side, with the exhaust can also moving to the opposite side of the current R-Series. These facts alone tell us there is a new motor hidden underneath the updated bodywork seen above. Road-testing this early in the year could suggest that we’ll see BMW unveil the design as early as the Fall motorcycle shows as a 2012 model.
    Source: SoloMoto

    http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/bmws-liquidcooled-boxer-spotted-wild/
    #81
  2. CheckerdD

    CheckerdD Long timer

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,432
    Location:
    Dave Rankine, Reno NV
    Oh my God I have this nightmare that I saw this before.

    Maybe it will just be an option. If you don't believe in liquid cooling you can just drain it. Dave
    #82
  3. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    5,506
    Location:
    Fresno, CA
    Ever see the Bill Murray movie "Groundhog day"?

    So has everybody else :deal
    #83
  4. Scottly

    Scottly Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2010
    Oddometer:
    128
    Location:
    Florida
    #84
  5. tallguy-09

    tallguy-09 Smile 4 Miles

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,440
    Location:
    Vancouver
    [​IMG]
    #85
  6. Avocet

    Avocet Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2007
    Oddometer:
    549
    Location:
    Long Island, NY, USA
    It's interesting that the air is going into the engine from the top of the cylinders and the exhaust is on the bottom. This would allow one cam shaft to operate both exhaust valves and the other to operate both intake valves, unlike the present twin-cam engine, where the gas flow is back to front.

    That change would allow variable valve timing with separate control of the intake and exhaust valves, like BMW uses on their car engines. Why else would they make a change like that? It will eliminate the exhaust pipes coming out the front of the engine, which are one of the thins that give the boxers their distinctive appearance, and would also seem to require a sharp bend of the exhaust pipe just as it exits the cylinder, to keep it away from the ground. Variable valve timing might justify this change, but I don't know what else would.

    There will need to be a water pump somewhere. Early 3 cylinder SAAB cars had the water pump on the back of the alternator housing (actually it was a generator back then), so a single pulley and belt could drive them both, on a common shaft. This would seem like a good arrangement for a GS, since it would place the water pump up where it can't be damaged.

    One thing I like about the air-cooled GS is that the riding experience is devoid of blasts of hot air off a radiator, which many water cooled bikes suffer from. I hope they manage to maintain this advantage. If not, that alone might make me keep my present bike.
    #86
  7. Deans BMW

    Deans BMW Granpa Hoon

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,658
    Location:
    Copperhill, Tennessee
    Here to fore, BMW has been quiet sucessful in controlling radiator heat to the rider in their to date LC bikes, just sayin.
    #87
  8. tallguy-09

    tallguy-09 Smile 4 Miles

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,440
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I know I've asked before, can you spot the boxer engine on the first picture? The panniers look BMW but the rest looks Triumph 1200 to me??? And yes I'd buy a GS (LC).
    #88
  9. Stinkyb

    Stinkyb GS"eh" rider

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2009
    Oddometer:
    368
    Location:
    Grande Prairie
    Sounds like more mechanical systems that ultimately will fail, or cause more problems than there actually worth. I'll run the crap out of my 06gsa..may take a while, than move to an 09 or 08.
    Why redesign the engine, when they can redesign the final drive...perhaps resolve withstanding faults that have been clogging these forums like a single toilet at a family reunion.
    #89
  10. jrfuisz

    jrfuisz Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Oddometer:
    44
    So is the thinking that it will be impossible to get any air/oil cooled engine past emissions in a year or two?

    If not, then the emissions issue is a canard. There will be a lot of bikes that no longer exist in the next few years if that is true.

    I suspect the real issue is the perceived need by marketing to offer more power to sell bikes. Maybe it's lost sales to the multistrada. But at 120-130 hp I'm not buying a new GS. Rather sad.
    #90
  11. RaY YreKa

    RaY YreKa Palanquins RTW

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Oddometer:
    16,339
    Location:
    Carried Forth
    It's already happened, qv. DL1000.
    #91
  12. jrfuisz

    jrfuisz Adventurer

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Oddometer:
    44
    And yet a Ural can? In think you are confusing a willingness to make an engine emissions compliant and the ability to do so. Compliance just means a drop in HP. There is no reason a R1200 can't make the cut but it would also drop in HP. It is not a technological issue.

    It is why ducat went from a 600 to a 620 to the 685 while hp stayed more or less the same.

    R1200GS has a marketing problem. It needs the boxer engine for the history but has to compete with the HP war as the bikes become less adventure and more tourer. It is hard to compete against Ducati, Triumph, etc and drop HP especially when these bikes get less and less off road capable.

    Any mfg that is claiming they "can't" make an engine emission compliant should call URAL.
    #92
  13. tallguy-09

    tallguy-09 Smile 4 Miles

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,440
    Location:
    Vancouver
    Couldn't a F1200GS (2-cyl/4-cyl) with ~150hp compete with a Multistrada and the R1200GS is kept as is, high torque with ~100hp and lower max rpm?

    #93
  14. mkletecka

    mkletecka Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2008
    Oddometer:
    286
    Location:
    dana point, ca.
    In my opinon, the new water cooled GS does not need/should not compete with the new 150 h.p. Multistrada (or similar); heck, the Multistrada is really just a big upright sport bike, which stole a lot of style que’s “this time” from the GS along with BMW’s ESA. Also it’s gotta chain and “no” telelever front end.

    What’s great about any GS really, is its ability to be easily altered to suit a variety of riding styles, i.e. touring, fire trails/dirt, canyon carving/sport riding. Also, it's opposed twin motor provides great “real world/usable power” and has wonderful gyroscopic’s/balance.

    As for the new water-cooled GS, I am eagerly awaiting it and hope that BMW builds on from an already fantastic “real world” do-it-all machine, if I want more h.p./upright sportbike, heck there's the FZ1, Ducati Multistrada to name a couple.

    Mike K.
    Dana Point, CA.
    #94
  15. Graemsay

    Graemsay Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2008
    Oddometer:
    669
    Bike magazine had a Thirty Years of the GS supplement at the end of last year, and it contained an interview with one of the senior Motorrad engineers. He reckoned that the air cooled engine could pass all current and upcoming emissions standards. That makes me surprised that BMW has a new one coming so soon after the latest update was unveiled.

    That said, one of the articles above mentioned a four valve, twin plug head, which could suggest the Wasserboxer is an evolution of the current engine.

    If the new engine is narrower than the old one then it could be lighter, as there's less metal involved.

    And a new R1200S? That's me sorted. :deal
    #95
  16. Midnullarbor

    Midnullarbor Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2010
    Oddometer:
    583
    .
    Are all the photos and speculations well based?
    Likely so.

    No-body has yet mentioned the s- word.
    (SuperTenere 1200)

    As a competent competitor to the 1200GS, the Yamaha is definitely attractive, and might in future take a significant bite of 1200GS sales.

    Despite our own Advrider interest & bias toward dual-ish purpose adventure-tourers, the lion's share of sales of an all-rounder like the 1200GS, definitely go to riders who stay on-road 99+% of the time. Sure, these riders may have a touch of RTW fantasy lingering in their minds, but Pavement Performance is where they're really at.

    Power is seductive.
    And a bigger (slightly) engine and a 25% power-to-weight advantage over the Yamaha, would be a good attractor of sales, lifting the BMW into a "higher bracket" in the minds of potential purchasers.
    130-ish horsepower could also claim some sales from the Multistrada 1200.
    (Nice as it is, the Multistrada is still very much the road-based bike. Borderline wheel-travel [170 mm] and a laughably small 17 inch front wheel [without availability of dual-purpose tires] eliminate 90% of its all-rounder capabilities. But it is stylish, has a trendy & slightly off-road Name, and above all - is powerful.)
    Water-cooling is useful for Power. Emissions benefits are probably a very minor consideration.

    The traditional boxer air-cooling has much to be said for it.
    But, with a well protected radiator, water-cooling has a great deal to recommend it - also, it hasn't put-off R800GS buyers.
    The boxer design is actually well suited to "hybrid" cooling - sufficient finning over the cylinders' water-jacketing, can permit a smaller radiator : and perhaps even allow "limp-home" capability (if coolant loss occurs).

    And here with a strikingly new design, is a face-saving opportunity to re-do some of those components to the rear of the engine, and overcome past "non-problems".
    #96
  17. indycar

    indycar Calmer than you are

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2008
    Oddometer:
    59
    Location:
    Indiana
    I remember when Porsche was switching to Agua cooled boxers on the 911. Lots of controversy, many thought it would be the undoing of Porsche. They seemed to have weathered the storm quite well, not to mention now making lots more HP,etc etc. (Ya, they do weigh more - but they're not nearly as spartan inside as they were 'back in the day').

    I guess I've been reluctant embrace change on many 'new and improved thing's, and more often than not, have ended up adopting later on. Keeping that in mind and wanting to learn from my mistakes, I'm open to the water cooled boxer. While not everything lives up to its claim of 'New and Improved', the water cooled boxer is the way of the future, like it or not.
    #97
  18. Jonesky

    Jonesky Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Oddometer:
    238
    Location:
    Louisville, KY
    I wonder why they even bothered with the camhead if they were about to come out with this.
    #98
  19. Aviatordoc

    Aviatordoc BMW R1200 GSA LC rider

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2008
    Oddometer:
    676
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    I dont get it.
    So out of the blue a spanish publication comes out with these pics and especially those of the engine, exhaust and radiator. The rest of the media did not have a clue?
    Somethin smells fishy!
    #99
  20. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Oddometer:
    65,471
    Location:
    Alexandria, VA
    Exactly! IMHO It will be several more years before this comes to pass, if it does!:deal

    Jim :brow