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Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Dorsicano, Feb 3, 2011.
That is simply the silliest thing I have ever heard. :huh
This is the way automobile engines have been made for several decades now. Some use cylinder liners, some use plating i.e. nickasil i.e. BMW , Porsche etc
No big deal here. Less weight, less parts, lower cost. i.e. moving into the 20th century(i.e. the last one)
Less oil leaks too :
While true, how many of those engine configurations have cylinders hanging outside the vehicle?
I'd hate to see what would happen if this were a unified engine casting:
New guy is from India (Bajaj Auto LTD) starting July 1st. 2012.
He was working for BMW before, in charge of the design evolution from R 1150 GS to R 1200 GS...
What does that mean for the R1250LC GS?
Robb and von Kuehnheim were a good team...
It seems you would propose to move away from the boxer engine....with the jugs needlessly sticking out....and go to some thing like the "brick" or the more current parallel twin aka f800GS, yamaha Tinerie(ooops spelling), honda and others. All of these have cylinders as integral castings within the whole block.
Not proposing anything at all. Just bringing to light that a common cylinder / engine casting in automobile sees different service (as well as service life) than our Boxers. With the pics, I was only pointing out a possible situation which might not bode well for a unified design.
Also, from von Kuehnheim's earlier interview and insight. . . it makes me wonder if the images we've seen are development mules for the engine, related castings and design-and nothing more. Just a passing thought, since the bodywork isnt moving the aesthetic forward in any significant way. . .
it looks like a lot of damage to the cylinder heads, not the cylinder. Did the cylinders need to be replaced in your example?
C'mon, I can out-silly that in my sleep!
OK hot shot, explain to us all how a Nikasil lined cylinder that is cast into the block can be rebored/rebuilt? I had Yamaha enduros in the 70s. If you lunched a cylinder you had to replace it period! They can't be bored! Only savior to this new design is if it has a liner inside that can be replaced. This is the only thing that would allow you to rebuild without replacing the engine block. If you know of another way by all means share it with everyone. Future BMW owners may need to know! BMW doesn't want to sell the best bike built anymore they want to sell the most bikes and parts they can. They even tried to do away with the final drive vent and tell you it had life time fluid. Now that was the silliest thing I have ever heard. Almost as silly as when BMW dealers tell you the final drives don't fail!
Are you willing to trade off your slash 2 for one of the new water cooled boxers?
Hey Jim, tell this to Jeff Dean if you can get him to stop laughing long enough to listen.
I had to replace many Nikasil lined cylinders in my much younger days as well as pistons and ring sets because at that time no over sized pistons were available and you couldn't bore it and remove the Nikasil lining. I thought that was crap then and still do! Lets hope that this new water cooled boxer has a replacable Nikasil liner inside those cast in cylinders or things are going to get really expensive. It would be a good trick to get you to trade more often or purchase one heck of an extended warranty, both of which benefits you know who!
anything built can be rebuilt. Nikasil is a plating process. It can be plated again. It can be sleeved. there will be ways. If you ever need to, that is. If after 200K miles, you need to rebuild, probably a light hone, high service limit pistons, rebuild heads, good for another 200K
and there will be so many low mileage blocks out there that it will be less expensive to buy a engine from a totaled bike, and use it.
Worry about something important.
Sounds like real progress to me. Buy a used engine. Interested where or who will "lightly" hone or replate a Nikasil cylinder. It goes on with a torch and is very very thin and can't be bored. Only hope is a replacable liner!
May be of some interest : www.lasleeve.com , www.kustom-kraft.com , www.lukesracing.com or www.mt-llc.com
I looked on the web sites and yes some are repairing cylinders now days. Most tell how precise everything must be, meaning no taper and thickness of the plating being even etc. After all the Nikasil is only a few thousands of an inch thick. Most say they can not be bored just lightly honed. I can only see pictures of cylinders on the web sites! They say "send cylinders to" I can just see pushing the bike into the shop or bringing in the entire engine/transmission and asking them to rebore/replate or other wise repair anything on a cylinder THAT CAN'T BE REWMOVED FROM THE BLOCK. It would be fun to watch and listen to the owner cry about how much easier to work on and how much better this new engine and transmission are. Someone commented on here that having the tranny and engine block together with a wet clutch would allow you to not have to "part the bike in half" to work on the clutch? I would think that it would be difficult not being able to open up the bottom side of the engine below the crank. I guess splitting the case isn't so bad huh? I wonder if this service will be offered from BMW? Over sized pistons and rings etc. We will see! If it were me, I would damn sure have engine protection bars on it.
I owned an entertainment center that had several components together. Never again. One thing goes out and the whole works goes in for repairs.
OK boys, rip my ass! That is my opinion and I am sticking to it. This is all I have to say about this.
It is the end of the world as we know it...
+1 on that.
Hasn't been an issue with K bikes for the last 28 years. Maybe they never need a rebore/replate... maybe it's not that much of a big deal to send the block.
The original K-bikes will run something silly like 300K miles. If BMW could get that kind of longevity out of a water-cooled boxer I'd be impressed.
They have been rebuilt! Come on Mr Glaves, Antone, anybody!!
If you look at a K bike engine. It would be a snap because cylinders are all on the same side of the crank. Getting to the bottom end and getting to the main and rod bolts would be a snap to remove the crank and repair. Very easy to hone or bore.
Jesus! Please somebody else that has over hauled an engine please explain this better than I can! I suppose that by looking at a BMW oil cooled boxer engine you can't figure out that if you pushed something into either cylinder that you are going to run into the crank, rod and piston on the other side. With a K engine this is not a problem because the "bottom end" comes off. No need to split the case. Air head owners please speak out too! The engine has an oil pan on the bottom. It can be removed and then the main bearing cap bolts and rod bolts can be removed. The cylinders can be removed too. Crank dropped out of the way. No split case!! Oil head owners have you noticed yet that you do not have an oil pan on the bottom to remove to get to the crank? Are you going to bore or hone with the crank in there? Or how are you going to tighten the rod bolts onto the crank after both pistons are in those new water cooled cylinders that don't come off? And no, the crank is not going to come out through the cylinders. That is the beauty of having the cylinders removable. On K engines you assemble from the botton end which is easy to get to. No cylinders to remove. No case to split. One piece head etc. a snap.
I only can hope that these new water cooled boxers do not have the cylinders cast into the block and not removable. All we know so far are rumors. I am concerned because unlike others I don't purchase a new model every time one comes out. I prefer to rebuild when needed. I see good engineering when something is built to last a long time and can be rebuilt easily when required. Not something that is built as cheaply as possible and gets you by for a while then replace it. Lastly, I hope I live long enough to attend a BMWMOA national many years from now. I want to see what is on display as far as classics and antiques etc. I wonder what will survive/