The All New LIQUID COOLED R1200GS threadfest

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Dorsicano, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. Marki_GSA

    Marki_GSA Long timer

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    Take the sump/oil pan off.
  2. tallguy-09

    tallguy-09 Smile 4 Miles

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    "DasMatti"
    Undoubtedly we need some help getting this thread going again, how was your test ride?
  3. marchyman

    marchyman DR and GS

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    :baldy I didn't think about that. Or, to be more accurate, I didn't think. :lol2

    How often do you need access to the piston on a modern boxer? I'm aware of one where the piston disintegrated at 180K miles. The solution to that problem was a salvage engine that was only 25K miles old. Much cheaper than trying to fix the old engine.

    What oil pan?

    [​IMG]
  4. hillbillypolack

    hillbillypolack Grumpy Old Goat

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    I seem to recall a number of posts regarding one cylinder vibrating and ultimately failing on the GS12. Often it was the right side. Hate to see some similar issue on this design.

    I'll say it again-makes me wonder if what we're seeing isn't a running development engine being put through its paces for research.
  5. tallguy-09

    tallguy-09 Smile 4 Miles

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    Looks like a (or two) running motorcycle(s) to me and I'm thinking all will be good :D
    First thing I'll remove: Rear Footpegs

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
  6. rdcyclist

    rdcyclist Long timer

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    In the case of the integral case/cylinders, you split the cases and the crank "falls out". Similar to rebuilding a Japanese four, the bottom case is split from the top and the rod bigends are exposed for disassembly.

    The truth of the matter is, almost nobody rebuilds motorcycle engines anymore. There are plenty of wrecking yard engines available with low miles and in the case of a worn out engine, the rest of the bike is usually done by then anyway. How much is a ten year old bike with 250k worth?
  7. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

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    You are right about everything, my fear will be with the "Chain tensioner" plastic guides that tend to disintegrate from time to time. :puke2

    Ps: If the new engine does not have the pesky plastic tensioner sliders, me bad and more power to them
  8. Anorak

    Anorak Woolf Barnato

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    It was a rhetorical question raised for the purpose of intellectual exercise.
  9. rdcyclist

    rdcyclist Long timer

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    :roflLord knows I need the exercise...
  10. Marki_GSA

    Marki_GSA Long timer

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    There has to be some access otherwise you wouldn't be a able to build the engine in the first place. Of course they could be 3D printing them. ;)
  11. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

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    Don't bring logic into this! :lol3

    Seriously, they simply compress the rings as they assemble the block halves!

    Jim :brow
  12. Beemerlover

    Beemerlover Been here awhile

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    Probably off-subject, but do those guys in the pics REALLY need those knee sliders with boxes mounted on those bikes?
  13. Beemerlover

    Beemerlover Been here awhile

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    Just like assembling a Goldwing engine, right Jim?
  14. Beemerlover

    Beemerlover Been here awhile

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    So, are the cams only supported right in the middle with the ends sticking out into space? Maybe I'm missing something, but that pic doesn't look right. Also, I wonder what that big boss on the outside-center of the head with the hole in it is for?
  15. jtfbb

    jtfbb Adventurer

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    Looks pretty much how the cams are supported in the current camhead motors. The boss on the the outside edge of the head - possibly to mount the shaft for the cam drive gear? - yes I think I saw gear driven cams mentioned somewhere.
  16. Beemerlover

    Beemerlover Been here awhile

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    From the pics I've seen of the camhead heads, there appears to be two fairly widely-spaced bearings for the cams. This pick looks like the only bearings are right in the middle. Maybe it's just the angle of the pics though.

    Gear drive for the cams huh? Sounds like a good idea, but I wonder if that will be a chain-driven gear in the heads that couples to gears on the ends of the cams? Guess time will tell.
  17. erkmania

    erkmania Last of the red hot left pipers

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mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} </style> <![endif]--> This is educated conjecture at its best, but the design looks like a wet liner design. It's likely that the block is assembled with the rods attached to the crankshaft. The pistons would then be installed into the bores of the liners. With the pistons protruding from the bottom of the liners the piston wrist pins would then pushed through the pistons and into the upper rod bores via an access hole made available through a water pipe flange, or some such, on either cylinder when the pistons are joined with the rods.

    This type of design was used by VW on the Wasser Boxer Vanagon for many years. IIRC, Renault was also fond of this design. A major drawback of this design is that removing the piston pins after many miles/years of use is difficult when there are some carbon deposits on the exposed portions of the wrist pins between the upper rod journals and the piston wrist pin bosses. Special tools are usually required to facilitate pin removal. Neanderthal measures and home mechanic clubbings don't work here. An owner of this type of engine design must not neglect or lengthen oil change intervals and must not use inferior dino oil.

    Another drawback of this type of design is that the o-rings at the top and bottom of the liners are also sensitive to poor maintenance. The coolant must not be allowed to degrade enough to allow corrosion of the grooves that hold the o-rings. Without proper maintenance, the o-ring grooves degrade and cause the o-rings to fail if the liners are made of iron that is exposed to the coolant. This would likely allow water into the crankcase and its oil if the liners aren't coated to protect the iron in the liners or the liners are not made of non-corrosive materials. Electrolysis is the enemy here.

    The rear view of the block doesn't show any access ports, water pumps or flanges that might provide wrist pin access. I would bet that a frontal view of the block would provide evidence of properly positioned devices that allow access to the wrist pins. Such a view would solidify the idea that these engines are a wet liner design.

    This is my take after rebuilding many Vanagons and is subject to withdrawal after serious internet flaming or real proof otherwise avails itself.

    As ever, YMMV.
  18. Deans BMW

    Deans BMW Granpa Hoon

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,556
    Location:
    Copperhill, Tennessee
    99% sure it is a wet clutch and the FD unit is the same as used on the new K1600's, a much more robust unit.
  19. rritterson

    rritterson Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2010
    Oddometer:
    207
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA USA
    Knee pucks are not used for support, they are used as a lean angle gauge. If the guys know how far to lean and hang so that the pucks touch just before the boxes, they'd be helpful.
  20. g_e_young

    g_e_young Born to ride

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Oddometer:
    946
    Location:
    N Calif, USA
    Is the K1600GT final drive a significantly different design internally? Or just more robust? I just hope the new FD is lighter as I think the single worst design element of my GSA is the amount of unsprung weight at the rear wheel. It's very obvious when driving over bumpy surfaces....

    g-