The All New LIQUID COOLED R1200GS threadfest

Discussion in 'GS Boxers' started by Dorsicano, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. cug

    cug --

    Joined:
    May 31, 2009
    Oddometer:
    5,641
    Location:
    Sunny California
    The way people look on them rather looks like it was designed not only by but for the aforementioned ... :rofl
  2. SQD8R

    SQD8R Eat squids and be merry

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,428
    Location:
    The Village: 75°53'34"W, 45°17'42"N
    Yes but is this a Q&A issue or a water-cooling issue? How many liquid cooled motorcycles have had water pump issues? Yes KTMs 950 is notable for it but KTM also has had outsourcing issues going back to the early 640ADV. Q&A is the issue not water-cooling.

    The BMW has significantly more locations to place and protect the rad compared to the DRZ. I would think if you've crushed the BMW rad you've probably got more pressing concerns. :lol3 Provided BMW place this in a secure area I don't see the risk increasing compared to where the oil cooler is today. Certainly compared to the placement of the early GS oil coolers low, and out in the open. :eek1 My HP2 oil cooler is high and to the side. I have dropped it more than I can remember, over 30 times in one rallye, and never had an issue.
  3. SQD8R

    SQD8R Eat squids and be merry

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,428
    Location:
    The Village: 75°53'34"W, 45°17'42"N
    It was laughable when people feared the Porsche change. It was as if people didn't believe it was possible to surpass their beloved model. I guess we'd all like to believe that considering the price point for entry. :huh

    In terms of outright performance I agree 100 bhp on the street is more than enough but as with the supersports and now it seems the sport-touring and adventure segments, minimal increases in bhp each generation are the minimum requirement.
  4. OConnor

    OConnor Bad juju

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,899
    Location:
    Midwest
    Is the FD issue a QA or design issue?
  5. Basic_Gerd

    Basic_Gerd Gerd

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    289
    Location:
    Germany ~Nuermberg
    Won't put 'em here or on my website, don't wanna be sued :deal.
  6. Basic_Gerd

    Basic_Gerd Gerd

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    289
    Location:
    Germany ~Nuermberg
    Think of the necessity of having 3 different spaces / volumes:
    1. engine oil
    2. dry
    3. gearbox oil
    You can save volume and bring the components closer together if it's only one volume. Whenever you'll see the pictures, it'll become more evident. But it's only personal thinking!
  7. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    6,338
    Location:
    Fresno, CA
    Absurd!
    It's just a matter of time for both HD and BMW, and clearly it will be a short time. As noted; there's a lot more wrong with V-rod than liquid cooling...like the 60 degree V-twin. You don't need to hold it up next to a 45 deg engine to notice the difference! It don't look like a Harley engine at all.
    A 45 degree engine is a big part of the HD look, and "the motor co" deliberately avoided trying to match the look, just like Hinkley didn't try selling Bonnevilles when they first brought Triumph back to the market. Both wanted the engines to sell on thier own merits.
    In '83 BMW introduced thier first liquid cooled engine-the K100. They had a boxer in development years earlier, but Honda beat them to the punch with the GL1000. For BMW to produce a liquid cooled boxer, even 8 years later, would be giving a nod to Honda. So even the newest BMW touring bike has an inline engine, now an I-6.
    Back to the original point of liquid cooling; it's going to happen. Period. All internal combustion engines will be liquid cooled for effeciency and to meet increasing clean air standards.
    WE won't be going back to steam power. Ever :deal

    [​IMG]
  8. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2001
    Oddometer:
    15,337
    Location:
    Salt lake city, Utah
    Cool you have a deal, I guess the other will need to wait until somebody else leaks the information.

    People better start to sell their 12GS's before is to late and the market is flooded with low horsepower machines.:deal

    Cool concept, It will be interesting to see a wet clutch mount it axially to the crank shaft and right in the middle of a engine, I don't see how in terms of replacement with out taking the engine apart but interesting idea none the less.

    In any case I'm with you on this one, I will say keep the bike below a certain Horse power output, Lets say a 100hp with massive torque and then downsize everything to make it lighter, smaller, narrower and more nimble, then again BMW is a "Platform" company where all the engines and chassis are share with the different models (Basically with small changes in production details) so it will never happen, Plus people always want more and MoRe and we all know BMW designs and base on their surveys and marketing department:eek1
  9. SQD8R

    SQD8R Eat squids and be merry

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,428
    Location:
    The Village: 75°53'34"W, 45°17'42"N
    What are you the new DrABSbrakes? :lol3

    What are you arguing here? FD :norton, it's been done and there are plenty of other threads to do it in, or water-cooling :huh , or advancing technology?

    My opinion on FD is this, it is irrelevant if it is a QA or design issue, if you don't trust it don't buy it. Many learned and many luddites have complained about CANBUS, ABS, FI, linked brakes etc. in the past and the result is always the same imo. Talk with your money, no real point whining about it, what does that change?

    The last I will say on this topic, insofar as the FD is concerned, the cause - QA, design, a combination of both or otherwise - the jury is still out (IOW the plethora of testing have proved inconclusive) and obviously based on BMW sales the FD debacle isn't as prevalent as the fearmongers would have us believe. Yes there have been FD issues, that is plainly evident, but it cannot be limited to one model of FD in the BMW lineup or model of BMW. Many models (R11S/R12S/K-bikes) have narry seen a FD issue. It's been done before but take the time to tally the number FD issues reported on this site compared to the number of FD fear and mongering threads. There have been a few surveys attempted here as well and the numbers don't bear fruit esp. when you consider the number of GS sold worldwide, not even 1%. So let's get past this and accept that nothing is infallible in this world. Porsches and HD have been known to leak, Mazda rotaries burn oil, KTM have had water and fuel pumps issues and BMW have had FD issues. My Honda's (RC51) have blown motors after 3,000 from new and (CBR600RR) blown rads at 15,000 km. You want consistent reliability without fail buy a pencil, that's about as good as it gets even with today's advances in technology.

    Bottom line, environmental requirements force BMW to move to water-cooling. This isn't new technology like the proven CANBUS nor is it impossible to repair "in the field" so-to-speak. BMW have had much success in every facet of automotive and motorcycling engineering not to mention motorsports. If you don't want water-cooling or don't trust their FD or whatever else the choice is evident, buy something else. There's simply no point in griping over it. They (they being FD and liquid cooling and in general advancing technology) are here, are staying, are immensely successful and are proven technology. Speak with your money, that's what companies listen to, and it's far more constructive and instructive imo.
  10. OConnor

    OConnor Bad juju

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,899
    Location:
    Midwest
    Uh, it was a rhetorical question. I wasn't looking for a synopses on the FD issue. :eek1
    Never-mind, I understand where you're at.
  11. gelandestrasse

    gelandestrasse Fidem Scit

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Oddometer:
    20,256
    Location:
    Oklahoma City
    That's petrol powered, not steam powered. :doh
  12. JustKip

    JustKip Long timer

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Oddometer:
    6,338
    Location:
    Fresno, CA
    Yeah. I know, but the steam powered ones actually look less clunky-more elegant
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    But you get the point. We're not going backward
  13. Basic_Gerd

    Basic_Gerd Gerd

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    289
    Location:
    Germany ~Nuermberg
    You're right. Changing the clutch is kind of "maximum credible effort" on an oilhead, and it'll be even worse. But on the other hand, the problem "oil leakage onto the clutch":eek1 will just vanish...:clap
    The mag article talks about 125 hp for the GS. I fully agree with mcstark on 100 hp is enough. OTOH, hp and torque (which nobody can have enough of) are not independent. The mag says 125 Nm :D - that's a nice spin-off.
  14. SQD8R

    SQD8R Eat squids and be merry

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,428
    Location:
    The Village: 75°53'34"W, 45°17'42"N
    Rhetorical questions (usually) imply the answer is obvious; you know something we don't know about BMW QA or design of the FD. :dunno:lol3
  15. Uncle Pollo

    Uncle Pollo Bad Hombre

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Oddometer:
    52,130
    Location:
    Albuquerque, Neue Messico
    Pick up an airhead GS and be merry then.
  16. SQD8R

    SQD8R Eat squids and be merry

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,428
    Location:
    The Village: 75°53'34"W, 45°17'42"N
    :freaky
  17. Ricardo Kuhn

    Ricardo Kuhn a.k.a. Mr Rico Suave

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2001
    Oddometer:
    15,337
    Location:
    Salt lake city, Utah
    Gerd thanks for the pictures, that engine is totally different, Yes changing that Wet clutch is going to be a pain, or at least very messy but Man is so much smaller and compact who really cares

    The "Latest and Greatest" freaks better start to sell their current GS's before is to late to trade them in for the newest "Latest and Greatest" thing

    Well if the whole package is smaller, lighter and easy to service, who cares if it has more power than the bikes needs

    Thanks again for the awesome pictures, I keep them "Secret" until somebody else leak them first.:eek1
  18. tallguy-09

    tallguy-09 Smile 4 Miles

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2009
    Oddometer:
    1,440
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I won't sell mine, first ride in 2011 on my 2010, has more power that I can handle :-)
    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1301165621.049557.jpg
  19. JStancampiano

    JStancampiano PhotoJoe

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2006
    Oddometer:
    514
    Location:
    N GA Mts
  20. Basic_Gerd

    Basic_Gerd Gerd

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    289
    Location:
    Germany ~Nuermberg