the bike just wouldn't make the turn....

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Andyvh1959, Jan 25, 2014.

  1. MotoTex

    MotoTex Miles of Smiles

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    As an FYI, that photo is an oldie from the Killboy thread. It can be further dissected there if needed.
  2. tkent02

    tkent02 Long timer

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    Or you could just ride.
  3. dwoodward

    dwoodward Long timer

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    They do indeed. But mostly they learn to toddle around on the bike they buy, and that's good enough; and if the bike they buy is "easy to ride", they don't learn much. If they buy into a bike that has a culture that says "It's OK to paddle walk / tip over / lay it down", they never learn otherwise.
  4. KX50002

    KX50002 NooB, my ass

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    I tried, it hurts.


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  5. scootrboi

    scootrboi Long timer

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    If you get a bike with enough torque, you never really have to learn to ride it. Just steer a little, stop, put it on the stand, take it off the stand.
  6. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen

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    Da frozen tundra eh? 1.5 mile west of Lambeau
    This reply was to another poster that said when in doubt, make the bike lean, because it most likely will do it! Sure it takes trust, trust in the bike, trust in the traction, trust in your own riding abilities, trust in having the guts/balls,cojones to get it done.

    But the quote above, makes it sound like the track is the only place this works, or that the tires won't hold. I say it is FAR more lilely the tires WILL hold and the bike WILL make the turn. But, SO many riders never approach what the bike can do, or has to do, and in so doing give it up to whatever results, that being "the bike wouldn't make the turn." I say it is more likely the bike will make the turn, so don't give it up. Why ride on the "sometimes" attitude when the bike/tires will perform? Go for it when you have to.
  7. Reduxalicious

    Reduxalicious Been here awhile

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    :huh

    My Street-bob was not easy to ride at ALL compared to my other bikes, It was a pig at slow speeds, I mean sure once you're above 20 It's all relative, but around town or any kind of low speed maneuvers? Hell no.. And as much as we all like to make jokes about how "Slow" Harley's are, The Torque will sneak up on you quick if you're not careful, Then again I was never 100% At ease with that bike..
  8. scootrboi

    scootrboi Long timer

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    This will be the year I wear all the sprues off.:eek1
  9. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    Perhaps, especially in the context quoted, but how something "sounds" or "seems" is often very different from reality. You may interpret something completely differently because of your own pre-existing biases. That's your choice. Which statement is factually correct though? The generalization or my mentioning of exception?

    Again, that can depend on the circumstances. Given certain circumstances, it could be far more likely that the tires don't even have enough traction to maintain a straight line of travel on a slightly-crowned road. Given other circumstances, it COULD be far more likely that the tires WILL hold and the bike WILL make the turn.

    For the most part, and in the most common riding conditions on public roads in this country, I agree, but when I see people generalizing, I often correct them. Why generalize if it is usually incorrect to do so and there is a much better way to state something? There is often at least one exception to most generalizations, and a few of us discussed this the last round. General rule of thumb: Try not to make generalizations if you don't want somebody picking them apart.

    Here's an example of a blatant generalization I recently noticed...I just took a CCW permit class, and the instructor flat out told us that there is no legal open-carry in FL for private citizens in public. I disagreed. There ARE exceptions, so her wording was incorrect and misleading. Many LEOs in FL are even usually oblivious to one major instance that a private citizen can legally open-carry in FL, which is somewhat shocking and disturbing, if you ask me. People legally open-carry in large numbers every year in this state...participating in licensed hunting and fishing. Are they out there shooting deer, pigs, turkeys, pythons, fish, cottonmouths, and whatever else that's legal with just their "PEW! PEW!" fingers? Do the LEOs in most states that allow hunting on public land freak out whenever they see somebody open-carrying?

    Generalizations, IMO, are usually WAY more misleading than presenting info while STILL allowing for exceptions. Try allowing for exceptions in your statements, instead of generalizing. It can take some practice, but you'll probably find yourself making fewer false/incorrect statements.
  10. ragtoplvr

    ragtoplvr Long timer

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    here is what I say. By the time you realize you are too hot for a corner, the outcome is already determined. All you can do is make it worse. You can not always make it better. So no fear, lean the bike, hang off to the inside if you can, at least lean to the inside. If you do not make it, you were never going to make it. If you do, it is because you did not make it worse.

    Rod
  11. tkent02

    tkent02 Long timer

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    This is not true at all. Quite often a generous dose of trail braking going into a turn will help, as will hanging off and leaning the shit out of the bike.

    Any bike will do amazing things if you give it a chance.

    If you have never experimented with trail braking, hanging off and really leaning into it, yeah, you're probably fooked.
  12. farmerstu

    farmerstu Been here awhile

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    +1
  13. Andyvh1959

    Andyvh1959 Cheesehead Klompen

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    Da frozen tundra eh? 1.5 mile west of Lambeau
    I agree with the recent comments made. The emphasis I was making, is that most riders will "generalize" their choices or actons only based on their past experience. Their lake of training, lack of ability, lack of willingness to challenge the event, or simply lock up due to panic, and not make the bike do what it very likely can do.

    Certainly, variables in traction, tires, loading are all major contributors to succesfully making the bike turn. But over all else, the rider in a very high percentage of cornering events IS the limiting factor. And in most cases the rider choses, purposely or inadvertently, to not make the bike do what it can do.
  14. JohnCW

    JohnCW Long timer

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    You know I was gonna disagree, but then I thought about is some more, and now I agree. Why??

    Think about it a bit deeper than just one corner ..... "By the time you realize you are too hot for a corner, the outcome is already determined. All you can do is make it worse". A positive outcome won't be determined by anything you do differently for this corner, because its just a tad late to be thinking for the first time now what did they say to do in the video? A positive outcome will actually come from riding around the corner just the normal well practiced way you approach every corner of that type at speed (and all the various techniques this involves).

    That 'normal' way will have been determined by the commitment you've made to developing your riding skills, and practicing these skills. That's why I strongly disagree with folk who believe advanced riding skills like significant weight shifting only belong on the track. It might get you a gold plated piece of plastic mounted on a piece of wood at a club track meet, but it may actually save your life on the road.

    So yes I agree "the outcome is already determined" as your approaching the corner....... by the amount of practice and commitment you've previously applied.
  15. EvilGilligan

    EvilGilligan Adventurer

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    counter steer vs weight shift ... christ. The physics of how a two wheeled vehicle turns are well understood whether the bag of meat piloting it understands it or not. Whether you wiggle yer fat ass from one side to the other (and induce a counter steer that you're not aware of) or whether you're yanking our pushing on your bars the net dynamics of the vehicle are the same.

    The guys who argue against "active counter steering" are also the same ones who stomp the rear brake leaving a perfectly straight skid mark into the stump that they target fixated on.
  16. EvilGilligan

    EvilGilligan Adventurer

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    I was "taught" how to ride by guys who race (OK, fed to the sharks and survived more like) and they told me three things:
    1. YOU are the problem, the bike can do amazing things
    2. Saw off your rear brake pedal for the fist year of riding, it'll just get you killed
    3. Look up the turn, trust the bike, and lean harder
  17. tkent02

    tkent02 Long timer

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    This isn't about counter steering, is it?

    I thought it was about making a sharp corner, which of course involves counter steering.
  18. scootrboi

    scootrboi Long timer

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    Throwing down the gauntlet one more time.:clap
  19. tkent02

    tkent02 Long timer

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    Nah, I couldn't care less if some riders don't know how they go around corners.
  20. JohnCW

    JohnCW Long timer

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    So you'd advise every professional motorcycle racer in the world to stop moving their fat asses from side in corners and just sit straight on the bike like they did pre 1970's as they can achieve exactly the same result by other means?

    You may be right, perhaps is just showing off and this 'bag of meat' (to use your expression) may go better and save a lot of energy if he followed your advice.

    [​IMG]