the bike just wouldn't make the turn....

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Andyvh1959, Jan 25, 2014.

  1. Badjuju

    Badjuju Biker Billy

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    Great! Thanks to you, I just wrecked my dining chair into the wifey's priceless china collection on the sideboard. Ya REALLY THINK she's gonna buy the ol' '…but honey, I was merely practicing counter steering' argument? Now I gotta think up something that isn't fake…. :huh
    #81
  2. joexr

    joexr Banned

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    You're lucky you weren't on a bike.:lol3
    #82
  3. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    I stand when I need to fart. :dunno :lol3
    #83
  4. baloneyskin daddy

    baloneyskin daddy bikaholic

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    What happens if it's more than a fart.:lol3
    #84
  5. Albie

    Albie Kool Aid poisoner

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    I don't sit back down! :eek1
    #85
  6. troops

    troops Adventurer

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    That's great, but but how do you stop them chasing you? No matter how fast I ride my farts always seem to overtake me.:puke1
    #86
  7. JohnCW

    JohnCW Long timer

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    Hi MT,
    Taking the main points in you post in order.

    Go back and read my posts, nowhere did I say hang out the side like Marc Marquez. As radical as I got in my make believe demonstration was a 2 inch shift on your seat, dropped shoulder, weight forward, and knee out. And I said find you own comfortable limits. If that's MM style well all power to you, if its just a slight lean to the inside, it'll still be better than sitting bolt upright 1950's style.

    Routine street riding - the topic being discussed was a guy who lost it on a country road at 60 mph, an a large BMW tourer. The OP felt the corner could be taken at a speed significantly faster (70/80mph ???), up to the point of dragging pegs. The topic never was beginner commuter riding or variations that people want to chuck in.

    Myriad of variables on the street - I'm repeating myself. That's the very reason its even more important to develop a riding habit of always being in the best position to control the motorcycle. On a track you just doing it for speed, on a country twistie, it may be your life. Anyone who says they've never misjudged a corner is either full of BS, or rides like a granny.

    Hang you knee - I just gave that as an example how little or how far one can apply the technique of weight shifting. I'm obviously quite interested in the topic so looked up a lot of old footage to see just who and when the classic 'tuck' racing position changed. The earliest footage (all on the internet) of a change in style that I could find is of Gicaomo Agistine (late 1960, early 70) who is the first to just hang out a knee. Think about this, the perhaps greatest motorcycle rider of all time rode classic style, but did hang a knee. If it worked for Gicaomo does anyone really want to say not worth doing?

    Fundamental skills - Why does everyone assume the rider who didn't take the corner was a beginner? Didn't make a turn, must be a beginner. Not a very solid reason. By the choice of bike I'm actually assuming he wasn't. Could be a whole lot of reasons why he didn't make the corner, even the choice of bike being one of them.
    #87
  8. JohnCW

    JohnCW Long timer

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    OK, should have given the braking tuition first. (I think that's a pun).
    #88
  9. JohnCW

    JohnCW Long timer

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    Don't disagree with the above statement at all. How about mine then?

    90% of the riders of modern day sports-bikes have no idea whatsoever how to set them up. Even if they can point to the compression and rebound adjusters, they couldn't explain what they do. Consequently relatively light stiff sport bikes are bouncing all over the place on typical B and C grade road corners having been factory set-up for billiard table smooth type road.
    #89
  10. troops

    troops Adventurer

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    #90
  11. JohnCW

    JohnCW Long timer

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    #91
  12. MotoTex

    MotoTex Miles of Smiles

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    I've known people who have been riding for decades who still think "lay 'er down" is a promising way to deal with any emergency situation. Are they beginners?

    Why would anyone assume that only a beginner might need to brush up on fundamental skills?

    Or, that the OP is the only one who might get something from reading this thread?

    I guess that when I contribute to a thread like this I try to offer information that more than just the OP might be able to use. When digging through ADV looking for something specific I always appreciate it when the topic's contributors have offered enough detail to be useful. Just returning the favor.

    As interesting as the explanation about how you weren't writing about hanging off and the associated historical content was, it was a bit redundant as I had mentioned how I realized I was mistaken in thinking that was your point.

    I think you and I are more in agreement than not. We just see similar solutions from slightly different perspectives.
    #92
  13. bk brkr baker

    bk brkr baker Long timer

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    In a recent column in Motorcyclist , California Superbike School head honcho spoke of a student that showed uo thinking he couldn't possibly learn much from the experience. He said "I already have 27 years worth of experience ! What can I get from one day ?"
    After the school his attitude had flipped.
    He said" What I had was one year of experience , 27 times. "
    So, learn something new, push your boundaries , go to the track and learn.
    If I crash again, which will likely happen if I ride enough It won't be from giving up ,laying her down or whatever. It will be from gravel,dirt, slime or whatever on the road and it will happen after fighting for sucess all the way to the ground.
    As they rule in AHRMA , if your handlebar touches the ground , you're done racing , you've crashed.
    #93
  14. shovelstrokeed

    shovelstrokeed Long timer

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    I have only one take on this "the bike would not turn" phenomenon,

    A vast majority of the riders out there learned to operate a motor vehicle in a car.

    There instinct is to turn the wheel in the direction of the turn. When in panic mode on a motorcycle, they do exactly that. They turn the bars towards the direction of the turn, effectively counter, counter steering.
    Boom, off the road excursion.
    #94
  15. merickk

    merickk Living Folk Tale

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    I watched a harley go down on at a big turn on the way to Mancos one day. After stopping he said his "steering locked up" Guy was ok, but bike had to be trailered out of there. massive damage to all the chrome and goodies.

    I attribute it to not paying attention and inexperience and its eaiser to attempt to lay blame to the equipment than his own ineptitude.
    #95
  16. tkent02

    tkent02 Long timer

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    A forty year old motorcycle well ridden can outperform 90% of modern sportbikes with their inexperienced and untrained riders. I especially enjoy passing them in a corner with chunks of mud flying off the knobbies.
    #96
  17. zuma

    zuma Been here awhile

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    When I was a young guy in the early 70's, the riding style of Paul Smart was considered a revelation, "jeeze, he's hanging his bum off the seat, he's got his knee sticking out in the breeze!"

    There's some famous shots of Smart at Imola in '72 on the Ducati 750ss being followed by teamate Bruno Spaggiari. Smart wearing a full face helmet, bum partially off the seat, hanging a knee out, Spaggiari wearing open face helmet and goggles, riding in the "classic" upright style. It really did seem to be a changing of the guard, the new replacing the old.
    #97
  18. steelerider

    steelerider Southafricanamerican

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    Steering locked up. Mmmmkay.
    #98
  19. Paebr332

    Paebr332 Good news everyone!

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    Something locked up...
    #99
  20. JohnCW

    JohnCW Long timer

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    There's a saying I heard years ago along the line of "you show me a man who thinks he knows everything, and I'll show you a man who probably doesn't know much". When we stop learning we are actually going backward as the rest of the world is still going forward.