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Discussion in 'Racing' started by PackMule, Dec 23, 2009.
Amen to that!
there is huge difference in speed between the front runners of the Dakar (Coma and Despres)and the guys who ride to finnish. Coma and Despres would stress a bike way more than "average joe" so KTM will build something capable of carrying the top guys to the finnish at the front.
And of course an EXC isn't the way to go ,it is an enduro bike .
But wouldn't it be nice if ktm built a 450 with longer service intervals and the same performance? This could work out for us "mortals" as well as the "back of the pack" rallye competitors.
Although this is a race thread its an adventure forum.
As more and more locations in the world get explored, the true adventures become more and more "offroad" orientated. A 450 with performance and longer maintenance intervals would be a "big hit" eventually among many members of this asylum, IMHO.
Hee hee - don't you think if they could, they would?! Surely one or other will have to be compromised? - the question is, by how much I guess?
yeah as an example of that is both those guys get new clutches every 2 days cause they work them so hard, where as others such as Rallye & David Schwarz (still top 20-40 capable) on stock 690RR's can get 15,000km out of the clutch in rallye races
Oh I agree - the EXC isn't perhaps the best basis from which to build a dedicated rally bike... simply that Yamaha, Sherco, Aprilia, Gas Gas et al* are all building their rally bikes around an existing (enduro) platform?
If KTM can pull it off (there is no question of can of course, rather will it be affordable to mere mortals!), then it does open up a huge potential for the adventure/trail rider if a customer version is ever offered...
Then I'm sure we'll also see a 450cc version of Yamaha's WR250R... here's hoping!
*Ooops, forgot BMW, Husky, Husaburg too!
I must have had a brain explosion when I read your last few posts, sorry!
As a n00b to racing I need all the advice I can get. Anyway I have bought a 2009 WR 450 and Im getting the JVO lite kit for it as well. Charlie is putting it together for me, and I´ll be testing it out in April in Nevada. As for the Dakar, I wouldnt presume Im good enough to enter that event at this stage! I have great respect for people who do!
You'll have a ball out in Nevada Bluebull - I consider that my home from home these days (having spent the last two winters in the US desert south west)...
Wish I was back there right now to be honest!
Sign me UP! My wife just got a new WR250R, and I am very impressed. A 450 version would have me drooling.
Kits galore available for the Honda. Low cost to high cost carbon fibre.
A friend of mine has a 450x here in Dubai which he used for the Transoriental and the previous dakar in South America (not this year).
Honda Europe has a very good succes rate (Challenge 75 kit) I believe. The bike only had oil changes in South America, no top end rebuild or anything else. I think it was a top 40 finish. I will get some photos soon.
PS 690 for sales for 20.000 USD 1 year old.
I agree with your first part of the statement about the top guys stressing their machines more than Joe Average but as to your last sentence, how many of the bikes in the field, other than the 690's, are not enduro bikes? The WR, CRF-X, EXC, 570 'Berg, BMW-X, RX-V even the Husky are all enduro bikes modified for the Dakar.
The EXC might not be "the way to go", but it's a damn good compromise for the Joe Average. Rallye kit it and do the Yilgarn and then straight into the Aus Safari. Strip the Rallye gear off and take it to an enduro and smile all day - both days . A 3 hr Pony Express in ironman? No problems. Bolt everything back on and enter Desert Challenge? No worries. Will it grenade? We'll see ... but 72 hours so far and still sounding sweeeeet . Only oil/filter changes, valve clearance checks (never moved from new), and a DirtTricks cam chain tensioner is the only attention the engine's received.
To add my 5 cents to the debate... I think Despres is a gar superior rider. I don't ever remember Coma beating him or finishing near him unless Despres had a mechanical problem or other setback (police directing him onto wrong road, etc). Coma tarnished his image somewhat at this year's Dakar with his cheating and he isn't overly well liked by the other riders. You'd be hard-pressed to find anyone who doesn't think Despres is a great guy. I suspect if KTM had to choose between them Despres would have much more value to them. Coma is a gifted rider, I'm not knocking him at all. I just think Despres brings alot more to the table.
Have you got the 2 guys around the wrong way or what ??
from what i saw ,Despres is the guy with no mates in the bivouac!. And Coma is everybit as fast as Despres ,He pulled lots of time on Despres when he was trying to catch up after problems.If you take away Comas penalties he would of come second to Cyril by 10 mins,thats after he stopped on day3 and 4 with problems so i think that shows he is as fast .
your right Jaybo ,it is a good basis for most people .What i am talking about is KTM turning it into a serious rally bike for top riders.Coma and Despres will need something a lot stronger than a EXC is.
Ditto.....they will kill an EXC.
They would kill any 450 out there, they bash a 690 to the edge of its life. PS although a bit of a Despres fan I think Coma is the faster rally rider, not necessarily the best just the faster. Theoretically if you could build a 450 engine with the same power as a current 450 enduro and make it last much longer and competetive with a 690 then why hasnt it been done yet? It would be an ideal engine for enduro', rally's even motorcross, low service intervals etc. If you beef up a current 450 engine to last 10.000km you will lose power and or speed. If developed, the tuning guru's will get more power out of it and lose reliability, the vicous circle starts again.
Friends in the bivouac? shit they are focussed on racing, personal goals, one secludes himelf to focus the other has other means. Both are on top of thier game, a bit like Rossi and Jorge, and therefore bash eachother at any given moment.
Hey, if you didn't already get our subliminal message: Go back to Africa and we. are. out. Get it now? Out. Out. Out. Get it? Out.
Read the rest of the article at marathonrally.com
Hmmmmm... anyone remember KTM's press release this time last year?
As I understand it, the car VW field is only eligible for Dakar (which is why you don't see it in the FIM world championship)... I'd suggest VW suck it up and build a car (like BMW has) that can compete on a wider stage - and especially if they want to play in ASO's garden?
Volkswagen "Race Toureg" is eligible under the FIA T1 Super Production rules for the other events in the FIA Cross Country World Championship (as are the X-Raid BMW's and Mitsubishi Lancer/Pajero EVO's). In fact VW has raced the "Race Toureg" at other FIA Cross Country events in previous years 2006-08 (UAE Desert Challenge, Tunisia, Des Sertoes etc.) in order to get test/race miles under the belt for both the car/team and drivers (Carlos came into rally raid from WRC with a great driving portfolio... but not much desert miles to his credit).
Once the VW outfit was up to pace, they curtailed (more recently) their participation in the other FIA and focussed on Dakar (always mooted as their main goal). It's a logical conclusion that this "lower profile" race program, also has a bit to do with the "economic climate" that has hit so many other rally programs (the factory Mitsubishi rally Raid outfit, Nissans T1 Dakar program, Subaru in WRC etc.)
I suspect that VW likes the south america Dakar concept...because, it suits their car, their drivers and (unlike in Africa) they are not giving away ten to fifteen years in experience to their major competition. ie: level playing field.
Then, what their marketing department see's as their primary market place etc. well that's for their bean counters to justify I s'pose.
I agree it is primarily due to marketing that VW want the Dakar to stay in South America... but the implication from the MarathonRally story (in the link above) is that the car does not conform to the new FIM rules for next season whereas the others have preempted the rule change (whatever that may be) and accommodated it in their designs?