The Bivouac (general rallye raid news)

Discussion in 'Racing' started by PackMule, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. bitwrench

    bitwrench ADV SUMO

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    Take a look at any motorsport, from F1 to Nascar. The realities are drivers are coaxed to other teams all the time. Money, better seats..the opportunity to have a legit chance at a title. For the offroad folks, careers can end in the blink of an eye, as even relatively minor injures can be a career ender. While the gasgas team was developing nicley, the KTM crew already have there shiite dialed tight. Best of luck to him...grab it and run with it.
  2. hubilado

    hubilado Motoquiero

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  3. rallye

    rallye Been here awhile

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    1200 HP SUV ,isn't that just what we all need ? to tow the bike trailer of course!!
  4. too old

    too old Keen supporter

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    All very strange, I believe it recognises that it wasn't the plan to have one and that JV is a friend of MC, but I can't see why JV would effectively leave a #1 seat on a bike that he has proven this year for a # 2 one when he can't compete for the win?

    Ok he could do a "Faria" and come second, or may just have a more tested and reliable machine on which to finish, but has he written himself off as a potential winner before the start, is he saying that the GasAss bike isn't really up to it - or was it just down to$$$$$ :evil

    In whatever event if he is to be an official water carrier for MC then KTM have changed minds and strategy and what will Lopez now think and do, or the others - do KTM care even?

    If this is the case then KC's absence may have forced the hand, as the orange eggs were perhaps slipping into a single basket, although Lopez may not have seen it that way and in reality KC may have struggled on navigation for the whole 2 weeks to be in true contention for 1st (this Dakar)?

    Whatever the reasoning I think without errors, breakdowns or serious time losses that KTM still have only one egg and one basket :D - but a big basket and a f5u**ing big egg :rofl:rofl

    A Dakar without errors, breakdowns or serious time losses - :rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl


    Hmmmm - some info in the bivy thread that could be the answer also? A shortage of rations, a la Bordoni?
  5. too old

    too old Keen supporter

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    Just look at Nasser A also, from buggy in which he and others have spent considerable $$$$$ to Mini X raid - from Red Bull to Monster, less that 2 weeks after a major Red Bull promo - man they must be pissed!!
  6. wilkinsonk

    wilkinsonk soup de grimace

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    Just because something happens all of the time doesn't make the behavior any more acceptable. I'm sure the corporate guys know what they are getting into, but I'm certain they don't think their "spokesman" is going to jump ship mid sail. I don't care how much money is being thrown around, if you've given someone your word you should stick by it. Unless there's already an understanding between the parties involved that the agreement stands only until something better comes along……I just can't see these companies entering into business relationships where the contract is that wide open.

    Coma has been with Karcher (pressure washers) a long time and Laia Sanz has been with KH7 (cleaning products) for an equally long time. More money has probably been waived in front of these two riders by other potential suitors but I have a feeling that there is a sense of loyalty to a sponsor that has been with you for so long (i.e. when you weren't yet famous).

    True, Sainz went to Honda from Gas Gas, but that was very early in the season and she used to ride the HRC Montessa 4T for a long time before her brief stent on GG. She didn't have a bike and/or support equipment on a boat to South America and then flip Gas Gas the bird while she jumped on a different bike. In my opinion, for what little that is worth in the land of internet forums, what Villadoms did was classless. I also don't see how a factory ride to support Coma as water carrier is going to put a life jacket on his career….with this move, KTM is showing that they're feeling the pressure that HRC is bringing to the mix.

    - Ken
  7. 640 Armageddon

    640 Armageddon -oo-

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    This may be true.
    For anybody this would be a big opportunity. There is a reason they are elite riders and this is one of them. Always try to have the best equipment out there.
    I don't think loyal means something to pro riders, and I don't think it should. Time flies and spend your time with the wrong teams, and you are screwed big time.
    KTM wants to win. If (a big IF, but still...) JV is in front of Coma, and HRC is leading the pack, I am sure KTM will unleash JV without making a ''Faria'' . The point for KTM is to win. As KTM. I don't think they do mind who gets the trophy as long he rides a factory KTM. JV has very good navigational skills, he is fast, I think he will do good.

    It is far more complex than ''stick to you word'' . For example, if I was in that position, and refuse to take the seat in the KTM, KTM would never try to take me to their team. Never again. Especially if they loose the Dakar crown. Now, the choice for me would be, ''who would I prefer to be ''enemies'' with? KTM or GasGas? '' I think the answer is obvious. KTM has the logistics, the package, a new, very competitive bike. The company will be around for the many years to come. GG may be in a couple of years decide to withdraw Dakar with financial things not going so well... Who knows...

    But it is difficult to see it from their (from the elite rider's I mean) point of view... Tough, but it happens all the time.

    D.
  8. michael1968

    michael1968 Been here awhile

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    Well said Dimitri! You would have to be very sure of yourself to pass up a factory ktm ride.
  9. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Captain Awesome

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    There is bound to be a lot of factors that helped his decision along that we know nothing about.

    I don't know about you guys but I'm not going to crucify someone just cause I read some stuff on the internet.:lol3
  10. 640 Armageddon

    640 Armageddon -oo-

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    +1 :1drink
  11. Flood

    Flood F5lood.

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    Gary who?
  12. michael1968

    michael1968 Been here awhile

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    Sorry Trev, this is the wrong forum if your going to try and pull that 'reasonable' crap:D
  13. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    I'm along the same wavelength as Ted on this one I think...

    Yeah, GasGas press release (after the fact) was fairly gracious... but that they took the "high road"? I'm more of the opinion that they were the handcuffed accomplices in a last minute PR "ambush".

    I mean, here is the chronology of the whole deal.

    B1K... KC66 is the subject of a fatal tragedy. Heartbreaking, emotional. A lot of people in the industry in grief... all very understandable.

    KTM announce only a few days later that David Casteu is to join team for Dakar 2014. In a little bit of PR opportunism, the blurb is spun that DC joins KTM and the place/memory of KC66 is honored (not sure if it was KTM or ASO that was the architect of this spin... but a nice gesture in KC66 memory).

    Anyone that was watching the moto press/EICMA expo realise that DC's KTM/Dakar deal was already in place when KC took the start line at the B1K... So the question mark raised... who/when/if will the vacant saddle be filled. In meantime KTM HQ backroom squad are out on the grapevine looking.

    viola... a deal is struck with JV. (understandable from the sporting opportunity aspect why he would answer the call... but is is suicide from the commercial/professional point of view?).

    So once the deal is struck (I still no idea of whether there was some kind of payment/transfer fee to GasGas from KTM or if JV was merely released/walked from the contract over to Mattighoffen) out comes the press statements from the parties involved;

    KTM :deal "yeah, after the terrible tragedy, it is wonderful that JV can join our team in his memory.... etc. etc."

    JV :deal "It's an honour to be able to join KTM after this regretable situation... thanks to gasGas for everything... you guys are great... you really are... but... you know?"

    GasGas::shog "ummm... what just happened? huh? Ah, oh... yeah... um, well of course we are all gravely sadened by the events of these last weeks, we look to Dakar confident in our preparation and wish Jordi well..." :huh

    "High Road"...??? :huh I mean what else could they have said after the fact... without coming off like douchebags - in light of all the emotion around the KC tragedy? Sure they were gracious.

    I'm pretty sure though, that if I was behind the big desk at GG, I would be expecting a reasonable transfer fee or similar before JV was realeased from his contract. I sure hope that they recieved some form of payment. In these "formula 450" times where everyone is gushing forth with pleasantries like; "it's so good to see so many manufacturers back in the sport", "it is more competitive than ever", "great to see the challenge being taken to KTM for a change" etc. But for a little manufacturer like GasGas, fielding a three man effort at dakar is no mean feat, the development of the bikes is impressive (they look awesome) and unless anyone has not noticed... spain's economy isn't exactly luminous at present (I think another poster alluded to the fact further up the page?).

    So that GasGas are "smiling through clenched teeth" - as deadly99 so eloquently put it. Yeah :nod not a bad effort after being kicked in them...

    No ill will to JV or KTM (as said, they are just doing what is best from a sporting/competivemness aspect) but hope karma rides with the spanish underdogs GasGas on this Dakar.
  14. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    Oh, come off it tREV... get off the fence of objectivity and crawl around in the accusational mud with the rest of us... :lol3:deal

    About JV's sporting ambition/motivations for the jump...

    Yeah, sure on paper the KTM deal is a big carrot... but it's for one ride... the 2014 Dakar...? Right? (maybe not... but extremely unlikely that in less than a week KTM brass decide on trapping up their 2014 season to include a previously - uncontracted rider from the competition).

    Meanwhile, back at GasGas, Jordi had the dakar and a 2014 program laid out (ok... the GasGas company on the corporate ropes could factor in JV's thinking perhaps?), but in either case he went from a program he was a part of, to throw his hat in the ring for (what at this stage is most likely) a one race gig? :ear

    Smart move for a shot at Dakar... career wise? hmmmm? dunno? :hmmmmm

    In NFL terms, didn't he just go from being a starting quarterback in a franchise, to a hired reciever brought in from the bench for one hail mary pass in the Superbowl?

    If he makes the touchdown - he's set. If the pass is "incomplete", it's back to the CFL at best. :lol3

    As the say in Hollywood; :deal

    The fingers you burn on the way up (back?) can be those connected to the hands that pull the red carpet out from under your feet at the premier? :evil
  15. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Captain Awesome

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    It may be possible that Gas Gas are in serious trouble and couldn't afford to give JV what he was contracted to get, and GG were happy to see him go...

    Yeah I know I'm grasping at straws:lol3, and I hope GG are not going under because I just bought one, but I'm just saying there are scenarios that could make the move make sense...

    I'm just struggling to see the logic in his move if it is all as transparent as it seems.:wink:
  16. rallye

    rallye Been here awhile

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    How much $$ do you really think riders like Viladoms actually get paid ,aside from the bikes and entry/travel etc.??
  17. tHEtREV

    tHEtREV Captain Awesome

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    Hey I did say I was grasping at straws.:norton
  18. Bluebull2007

    Bluebull2007 Adventurer

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    This is what it boils down to, plain and simple.

    BTW Dimitri: Do you have a Mark1 Road book working on a competitor's bike in the Dakar 2014? :ear
  19. Drif10

    Drif10 Accredited Jackass

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    On this one bit, I would mention the old, and always true saying: those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

    Or: why would you expect a leopard to changes his spots?

    They have never done differently in my memory... :dunno
  20. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    The Bordone-Ferrari deal from the previous 18 months was also something I had in my mind when I was scribbling on about this GasGas defection (co-incidentally wasn't JV a player in the Bordone collapse in lead up to dakar 2013 as well? :ear).

    In either case... I was pretty sceptical from the very outset that the B-F project could ever realize the PR blurb that they saturated the thing in from the beginning.

    In stark contrast GasGas HAVE got on with the job over the last two/three years of putting together a gradually improving program - where now thay have their own - legitimate - bike, with a program and rider team built around it.

    Now this set back.

    gasGas are now my sentimental underdog for a good result in 2014... hope they find a competent substitute at short notice that can do them justice.