The Bivouac (general rallye raid news)

Discussion in 'Racing' started by PackMule, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. Balkan Boy

    Balkan Boy Long timer

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    Well done to Yannick Guyomarc'h for taking power naps, using his head, being dead last every day and finishing the Dakar 3-4 days behind some pressure-washer guy.

    [​IMG]


    :clap:freaky:clap
  2. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    EPIC interview with an ironman malle-moto!!!! :clap:clap:clap
    Thanks a lot for the link. Amazing, really!

    In the good old African times, people would spend the night out in the dunes, arrive at the Bivouac in the morning, grab the roadbook, take the Departure Control, sleep an hour and continue. I remember lots of stories like this then. Saharan nights in January are not a walk in the park - temperatures can go bellow freezing - but people used to endure it with just riding gear, a survival sheet and a hole in the sand.

    With the new "Andine style" Dakar, overnighting at 4000 mts with just what you carry on the motorcycle is prolly fatal.

    What I don't understand is why, on this kind of stages, there aren't a few CP's with a time-limit established before-hand. At the briefing, on the roadbook, it should be clear: "if you don't reach CPx by hh:mm time, you are excluded and cannot proceed". This is standard practice on some amateur rallys.

    This wouldn't solve the official misdirecting racers problem, like Jan Vesely suffered. IMHO tHey should have been readmitted with a time penalty. They followed the rules and instructions, the orga fucked-up, they should be allowed to proceed. Not entirely fair to the others that weren't caught up in the Orga's failure, but still a fairer outcome.
  3. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    According to the Dakar regs under Timing/CP closure, exactly this information is included with the stage schedule/summary information that is distributed with the roadbook. (whether many participants read, understand or take notice of this is entirely another matter).

    [​IMG]

    Put simply, the rule defines the CP cut-off time as being 60 minutes AFTER the theoretical passage of the last competitor who starts the day/stage. This determined by an average speed for the stage/in relation to the (cumulative) distance of the CP from the SS start.

    The thing is, that many competitors at the blunt end of the pack (who have enough on their plates as is) often have little idea of what these time limits/cut off regulations entail etc. until they are faced with the situation where the sweeper truck is already breathing down their neck and they are under the hammer.

    It's become apparent to me over the years that oftimes it is only once a competitor is faced with the consequence of exclusion and they consider lodging an appeal/protest in an attempt to keep themselves from being disqualified - that they actually take the opportunity to acquaint themselves with the rules (and understand what they mean/consequences are).
  4. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    If some kind soul is able to provide the total distance of CP3 on the SS3 (canyongate stage), you can determine what the cut off time for that CP should have been.
  5. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    That would be CP2, 300 km?

  6. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    Troy, what's Last CCR (Credence Clearwater Revival)?? on the table above?
  7. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    Yes... I believe so (I referred tp CP3 earlier - as Bluebull did - incorrectly).

    But this is the CP just before the big climb to altitude @ 4000 m + and approximately 70 km's from the finish of the stage...

    So; :deal (EDIT)

    The original SS3 distance was 373 km's. The shedule allowed for 5 hours running time. Which is an average of 48 km/h.

    SS3 actual start for this stage was at the 130 km point... so effective running distance to CP2 was 170 km.

    The last rider to start SS3 took the DSS at 11:02 am. At an average speed of 48 km/h, plus 15 minutes (nutralisation time at refuel) gives the last rider a theoretical passage time at CP2 of 14:49 PM.

    The CP closing time for CP2 on SS3 (for the moto/quad category) should have been 15:49 pm.

    I don't know what time it got dark that day? :huh
  8. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    I don't know what the direct translation of the initials CCR translate to... but counting back from the times... i think it is the sheduled arrival time of the last theoretical competitor (or perhaps the sweep crew?) to the various control points/bivouac locations. ie: the caboose of the dakar train. :D
  9. 640 Armageddon

    640 Armageddon -oo-

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    Sunset in Peru at that time of year (January) is approx 18.40 :ear
  10. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    did you get that from the almanac... or our good mate upstairs...? :evil (cause he's been at my calculator again) (thanx Brodo :wink:)
  11. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    For SanJuan, Argentina (closest city):

    6 Jan 2014 Sunrise: 06:37 Sunset: 20:43 Daylenght: 14h 06m 17s,

    205'ed by Balkan. Anyway, cuttoff at 15:49 and 73km to hike for the Bivouac until sunset at 20:50, looks prudent enough. So last question to close the Post-mortem, were the guys stopped at CP2 before or after 15:49?
  12. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    [​IMG]

    Ja... dat's for sure da qvestion vhat we are all vundering about... jah...??!! :lol3
  13. 640 Armageddon

    640 Armageddon -oo-

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    For some reason I have Peru in my mobile phone amongst other cities...) 2000+ kilometers away... I remind me of the iritracks in merzouga last year :rofl
    Good mate will always be present Troy... Laughing at us when he crunches the numbers with his calculator :norton
  14. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    :D:D Now, you go and search the megathread for the CP times, please :D:D
  15. 640 Armageddon

    640 Armageddon -oo-

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  16. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    Good one! :clap

    looking at that (stage 3) the last time stamp shown for CP2 is for moto #92 Mike Johnson (USA) Honda at 18:17 pm

    The site shows #118 Yannick Guyomarch (FRA) Yamaha (our adopted never give up hero) as having passed the CP point at 17:45 pm (which meshes with his account in the interview that was posted). Yannick made the bivouac (according to the times on mischa's site) at 21:55 pm... the last rider in and last to complete the SS3 course according to the time sheets.

    At that point in time there were only 118 riders who hade completed the entire SS3 stage... although there were approximately 40 or so other riders who were involved with the "delay" at CP2 in some form or another. Some managed to make it to the San Juan (leg 3/4) marathon bivouac and were permitted to re-start leg four, some were held prior to the CP2 location and subsequently were to late to arrive at the SanJuan bivouac the next morning in time to start the Day 4 leg... Upon transporting onwards the 550 km to the Leg 4/5 bivouac at Chilecito, they were informed by the organisers that they were not permitted to start Leg 5, having missed the entire Stage 4.

    As far as I can piece together that how the cards fell from the time/scoring perspective.
  17. 640 Armageddon

    640 Armageddon -oo-

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    I think you have the filters ''on'' may be Troy? (NLD riders, top right corner) :ear

    I have Alberto Medina +2.52.15 :huh
  18. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    Copy that! :nod:clap I will edit my previous post with correct data.
  19. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    riiiight......:D

    If the table above is correct, Barreda (3rd to go out that morning) CP2 hours for Barreda were 12:28 pm
    Yannick was there at 17:45 pm

    Another late arrival was Juan Sebastian Toro +4h03, and there's Mike Johnson (USA) at +5h06, he finished the stage, so the CP wasn't closed for him!

    I can't reecall Vesely's story accurately but I'm pretty sure he was past CP2 and at the top of the moutain was misdirected by someone from ASO. But he doesn't have a CP2 time.

    Clayton Jacobsen doesn't have a CP2 time either. Was he there after Mike Jonhson and denied a stamp?

    CSI Dakar, how many months to Dakar again??? :D:D
  20. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    Carlos... according to the time clock on mischa's site, Barreda passed CP2 at 12:28 pm as the first rider.

    The start time info you refered to was for the original sheduled SS3 start, but they moved the DDS on Day 3 at last minute up to the 130 km mark. Barreda's correct start time for SS3 was 09:54

    I edited some of your post because I could see the confusion between "elapsed time" on stage and "time of day" at the various CP locations, will complicate the issue for some.