The Bivouac (general rallye raid news)

Discussion in 'Racing' started by PackMule, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    I mentioned in the Dakar thread recently that a guy rode a G450X based bike in Heroes-Legend last year, and he had similar engine problems too - he got through all three engines he had with him by half way through the second week (I think he said they were suffering from too little oil), and ultimately had to be transported by his support truck the final few days, before he pushed the bike over the finish line, and promptly jumped up and down on it!

    [​IMG]

    I offered to sell him my Tenere, but quickly withdrew the offer when he looked like he might seriously accept!

    J xx
    #61
  2. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    Actually, what is interesting about this machine (quite apart from it says so on the information board) is that it seems be be based on the RMZ450 MX bike, rather than the RMX450Z enduro - the frame has indentations in the main spars (you can see these above the kickstart arm) like the MXer does, and the rear fender is the MX type, not the enduro bike. I imagine then that also it doesn't have an electric start, which is pretty hardcore!

    J xx
    #62
  3. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to Asphalt!

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    I'm with JMo.

    I think a DRZ400 is the perfect bike for a privateer on a budget. The motor is reliable enough to need minimal maintenance and run a marathon class w/ no issues. The engine should not have be considered a consumable.

    If one got the S version or the SM version on top of that you would have a sturdy subframe to hold rear tanks and a stron electrical system to run lignting and gps/nav equipment.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    #63
  4. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    That's correct Jenny, the photo of the Valenti bike I posted previously, is an early concept/version intended to show the potential a Suzuki 450 rallye bike might have. It was built by the Italian Suzuki distributor and based around the RMZ 450 (the project was undertaken before the RMX enduro version of the 450 Suzuki was released I believe).

    As you can see from the other photo's, the bike in question is pretty much a "work in progress" (as evidenced by there being no roadbook/nav equipment etc. behind the cockpit fairing), so i beleive the bike was something of a "concept" version (is that what "ideata" on the placard in front of the bike means in Italian...?).

    One would imagine that Valenti would be looking at fitting the split front fuel tanks, navigation tower/fairing and rear tank components from this RMZ version, onto the enduro based (el-start) sister RMX machine - now that it has been released - to create something along the lines of the 450 Suzuki based rallye bike that your originally hinted at a few pages back.
    #64
  5. Hayduke

    Hayduke ///SAFETY THIRD/// Super Moderator

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    Since I was in Baja during the Dakar, I'm just catching up and watching all the Eurosport coverage. I gotta say, I was super impressed with Casteu and the Sherco's performance up until Casteu's off. :cry Surely a testament to Casteu's skills, but also to the Sherco.

    Watch out next year, IMHO.
    #65
  6. Stagehand

    Stagehand Imperfectionist

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    I remember you mentioning. Bummer about that. They do have precious little oil.
    #66
  7. MEGO

    MEGO Africa Racer

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    Some ideas, to have something to tell about...

    This year in Dakar there was the problem with the Coma tyre. Anyone was sure about the irregular change.
    Why not to check and to mark all the tyres each rider got in his assistence truck before the race? And, in the meantime, why not a limited quantity of tyres each rider, for all the race? And a limited number of rims?
    Less than one tyres a day, to cacth the original spirit of "marathon raid".
    Factory riders, in this case, must take attention and must ride not at max speed.
    And why not less fuel liters for Elite Riders, face to the privateers?
    Remember many privateers got just four tyres and four rims for all the race (2 ant and 2 post)... (2 on the bike, at the start and 2 on the Elf plane)

    Remember in 24 H du Mans there are a limited number of pit stop and fuel lt.
    And in all the major races there are restriction about fuel.

    Less fuel on the bike could be safety and the racer must go slowly...
    In this case, if the rules normaly tell 250 km + 10%, for the elite drivers could be 275 km + 10%

    Dakar was not a "speed" race, but a raid in the desert with orientation problems...
    #67
  8. rallye

    rallye Been here awhile

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    KTM cannot afford to get out of rallying and i think the new 450 KTM rallye bike might have LC8 printed somewhere on it !!! -500cc. my thoughts..
    #68
  9. canadaler

    canadaler Been here awhile

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    I think the real issue is with the mousse...not the tires.

    If your going for reliability and economy...I'd go even more "retro" and use the XR400 as a platform. 50lb less to start with as compared to the DR-Z. Dead simple and stone reliable. Throw on an oil cooler and rallye gear...you'll die out in the desert long before it does. :D
    #69
  10. Hayduke

    Hayduke ///SAFETY THIRD/// Super Moderator

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    +1 I sure miss my XR4. (it already has an oil cooler btw :D)
    #70
  11. Yellow Pig

    Yellow Pig Allergic to Asphalt!

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    So what kind of gearing are they running to be able to do 90-100mph on a 450?
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  12. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    I agree - I've had one since 2003!
    [​IMG]

    And even took it to Morocco in 2006:
    [​IMG]

    And agree it is utterly bullet-proof... however, the XR400 doesn't have an electric start (or battery electrical system) that would make life a LOT easier on a rally bike? That's not to say those can't be retro-fitted, but then that would negate a lot of the weight advantage over the DRZ?

    I also wonder if, in high temperature racing conditions, the air-cooled XR might not suffer more than a liquid cooled bike? It's fine as long as you keep moving, but stuck in a sand dune, you might cook the little fella?

    I've long been tempted to take my 400 back to Morocco in competition - however, running all the nav gear would be tricky without a battery...

    J xx
    #72
  13. Jeff@TheQuadShop

    Jeff@TheQuadShop TAT survivor

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    I've seen several XR400's race Dakar over the years.
    #73
  14. canadaler

    canadaler Been here awhile

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    You can put a 200W stator on the XR400, plus do a battery conversion. Parts from the LTX?400 Honda quad (even the e-start) are interchangeable with the XR. Personally...I wouldn't do the e-start conversion.

    As far as cooling capacity, some people used to weld additional aluminum fins on the engine...but you're right, that ain't gonna help you much when there is not air flow over them.

    In terms of oil cooling...I was sort thinking of putting a larger oil cooler rad on the XR (maybe off a DR650?) and then (as long as you had the bigger output stator) hook up a fan to it as well. I think it could be quite effective when you don't have enough air flow over your engine fins.
    #74
  15. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    Of course, you can add all of this stuff - but that was the point I was making above - that once you have, you've negated a lot of the weight advantage, and arguably made the bike more complex too?

    I'm not saying it can't be done, or that it wouldn't be a good machine at the end, but something like the DRZ would be less work, that's all...

    Also, since the XR400 production was stopped in 2004, there are many more, and later model DRZs around to choose from?

    J x
    #75
  16. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    That would be an interesting alternative... though perhaps it would not be as easy as just putting two 225cc barrells on the current LC8 unit... would it??? (I'm not saying that is what you meant Rob). I mean the 950 motor/gearbox etc. was designed, built and dimensioned on a "one liter" configuration... I doubt that two small 250cc-ish pots would be capable of making the big hamster wheel turn sufficiently... eh?

    But maybe if they developed a whole new configuration baby LC8 engine... something more along the Aprilia lines...? KTM do have a great deal of "twin" experience from the LC8 project... it's not impossible... but in the current economic situation that KTM (and everyone else) find themselves in... is it likely? Or have KTM been down down that Dakar race/development bridge before (with the LC8 rallye and 690 RR) only to have it burned behind them... because they were too successful? It might be a hard sell to the bean counters at mattighoffen with that facit in hand.

    "The Bivouac" speculation continues...? :D
    #76
  17. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    Maybe next year they will do some sort of finish on the Beach ala the rose lake ????? I was let down by the last couple yrs finishes.. uneventfull for the racers... infact it should be done on both oceans, it would be a nice touch to bathe in both the pacific at the rest day and the Atlantic ... thats how I remember the end of the dakar everyone lines up and hits the beach...

    I'll bet KTM just outfits the 450exc with rally components and have already started.
    #77
  18. Hayduke

    Hayduke ///SAFETY THIRD/// Super Moderator

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    I hope so... maybe they'll make some advances in longevity that can be passed along to consumers... oil coolers, fairings, tanks, etc. :dunno

    I like the idea of finishing on the beach. :nod

    I like the idea of Dakar going back to Africa better. :nod
    #78
  19. gagnaou

    gagnaou Long timer

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    #79
  20. Osnabrock

    Osnabrock Ditch GPS

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    With all this talk of the factory riders and their possible changes of loyalties, I'm curious how the high ranking privateers might be set to benefit from possibly being offered some more support from those companies waiting in the wings. :clapPal Anders:clap
    He's put in a lot of time on that bike and now what's he gonna do?
    #80