The Bivouac (general rallye raid news)

Discussion in 'Racing' started by PackMule, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. ArthDuro

    ArthDuro quarantined

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    The full version and the verdict is - Fake - it is all AfterEffects and Final Cut
    Blue screens and giant budgets. KTM really flounder their advertising cash.










    just kidding


    Notice how Faria didn't push his luck wonder if Cyril would have done differently.
  2. yety61

    yety61 Global Vagabond

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    G'day all,

    Even after watching the video multiple times, I still don't believe the jump at 3:46 is actually Coma. KTM spend lots of money on makebelieve advertising. :D
  3. F650Dakar_Norway

    F650Dakar_Norway What off-season?

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    I believe that must be Ronny Renner in Marc Coma apparel doing the stunts on a 450RR. Nice publicity ploy, but still a fake. Coma didn't appear THAT comfortable on moderate height jumps, so they simply put some Coma apparel on Renner and let him fly that 450 through the dunes. I may be wrong, but that FMX body language belongs more to Renner than Coma.

    Nice one, KTM! :rofl
  4. escuchamente

    escuchamente Let's Ride

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  5. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

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    Quote:
    <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by Safariaddict [​IMG]
    I was just wondering the other day after getting back from condo and thinking about a question my girlfriend asked me whilst she was helping me wind my maps into the MD for day 2, Is there a better way to do the maps instead of using paper scrolls, ie a digitial display.
    Not sure if anyone has brought this idea up or I'm just dreaming.
    Wouldn't it be great if you just turned up and downloaded the days route instructions into your display and away you go, and it was syncronized with the ICO so the next instruction flashed up as the kays tick by. ?

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    The DAKAR (then TSO) had a far more detailed GPS route in years past (mid 90's to early 2000's) and the "compass" arrow pretty much did the job of showing the direction of the entire course (actually, at the time, CITRÖEN and MITSUBISHI had systems that they could "download" the route info into their own nav computers - similar to that which you describe - but these were banned, as only the factory teams had access to it and it was a BIG advantage).

    The GPS did not however detail things like cautions and speed zones etc. (basically it was just an electronic compass) and the result was that a lot of bike riders paid more attention to following the electronic arrow, and NOT keeping an eye on the roadbook, speeds cosequently rose, and as the pace went up... so did occurrence of big accidents happened... and so the move (back to a less is more GPS navigation) back to making the roadbook the primary source of nav info, wast taken (to the system used in place today).

    What you are talking about is digitally replicating the paper instructions (incl. cautions, turns, speed control zones etc.) as an electronic "roadbook". Coupling this to the trip meter (or via the GPS... would be even more accurate/simple) is entirely possible with todays technology (GPS,SPOT,IRRITRAC etc.), but by combining (and simplifying) the need to keep updating the maps roller and "bumping" (correcting) the ICO/trip to correlate with the routechart.

    The system you describe is quite possible to create... what the cost, and what effect it would have on simplifying "navigation" (ie. make it easier/raise the speed averages on the course)... well that is another question.

    It sure would make it simpler to navigate... that in turn would make it "faster" as well... on the other side... with less things to keep in the top of mind (calibrating the trip, rolling on the maps) while on "the fly", then perhaps the rider can concentrate more on the riding/terrain and yhis would REDUCE accidents (even if the pace went up slightly?). Interesting option for the future maybe... any electronic geeks want to give it a shot? :ear
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  6. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    Yes, I've been getting the daily updates from this one - seems that Chaleco Lopez had a bad crash a couple of days ago...

    "First rider to pass the finish line in the fourth stage of the Oilibya Rally of Tunisia, is the young Polish Jakub Przygonski (KTM 450 No 15), leaving in pole position this morning, he was quite upset upon arrival. He was in the wake of Francisco Lopez (Aprilia 450 No 1) and he saw the Chilean fall heavily. Within moments, he triggered the alarm, Portugal's Helder Rodrigues (Yamaha 450 No. 3), then the Spaniard Jordi Viladoms (Yamaha 450 No 4) arrived at the scene, the Polish prodigy then got back on his bike in order to inform the arrival station, while the other two riders remained with &#8220;Chaleco&#8221; pending the arrival of the medical helicopter. In these circumstances it seems clear that the sporting interest of the 4th stage passes quickly into the background ... very quickly transported by helicopter to the medical unit of the bivouac, the Chilean pilot, conscious but suffering from a fractured leg and hand, and a thoracic trauma was immediately transferred by helicopter to a hospital in Djerba La Douce for further tests..."

    Jx
  7. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    Following on from what Troy has said, the main reason the roadbook is still on paper is that it is a great leveler - it is the same for everyone - if the data was digital, then it could be manipulated in different ways using different devices, whether approved by the organization or not?

    For example, if it was a download, the support teams could also utilise it, scan the whole roadbook very quickly, map it out on a screen, look for short-cuts etc etc. I'm not saying anyone would cheat, just use it to their 'advantage' ahem.

    Fundamentally though, a paper roll is a failsafe - if the motor/power packs up, you can at least wind it forward manually.

    Also, it is very easy to make adjustments to the info with a pen and scissors - not just at the briefing the night before, but also during the day itself mid-stage for example, where the route may have to be amended due to an accident or washed out river for example?

    As for linking it to the ICO and GPS - a fundamental part of a rally is the navigation, and the pilot's ability to process and manipulate the data they receive from the different instruments (it's not just about who is fastest over the ground!) - getting the nav gear to do it for you takes away that fundamental element?

    However, regarding the auto-correct or 'bump' facility Troy suggests - if you use the new generation Speedocap display (combined speed/trip/compass heading) in conjunction with the organization's GPS, then the trip element of the Speedocap does reset itself to what it 'should' be, every time you pass a waypoint in the GPS' memory.

    As long as you don't go wrong from the roadbook (and thus need to reset manually back and forth on the fly), it is a very accurate trip meter - so much so that Si Pavey did bother with a regular ICO this year in the Dakar (although he did have a Trail Tech Vapor fitted as a back up), and simply relied on the trip data from the Speedocap...

    Jx
  8. tehdutchie

    tehdutchie Long timer

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  9. skibum69

    skibum69 slave to gravity

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    the terrain looks fun for someone at my level, it's on my radar for one to try
  10. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

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    The Tripy is a fully electronic roadbook device (www.tripy.eu). They've used it in the assistance vehicles in Dakar.


    I'm working on a device that will provide some interesting related features, though it's not exactly an electronic roadbook as you described. This is not just for rally racing, but for other forms of racing as well, particularly USA & Mexico desert racing. For motos, there will be no screen (keeps cost, size, and complexity down and reliability up). It will be roughly the size of a common handheld GPS unit. Here are a few things I'd like include, though certain features would likely be disabled depending on the type of race:
    - Audio course notes (i.e. roadbook in your ear). This could reduce or eliminate the need to look down at odometer, roadbook, roll chart, gps, speedometer, heading repeater, etc.
    - Smart automatic pass alert (super intelligent Sentlnel type function without the need form manual triggering), great for dusty conditions and for those times when unfriendly car drivers pass motos.
    - Near speed limit and over speed limit alerts (with internal recording of violations).
    - Off course alert.
    - Hard impact detection and auto alert to race officials and all nearby race vehicles.
    - GPS recorder, stores GPS track so officials can check after the race for course cutting.
    - Nearby vehicle tracking (like a radar with maybe 1km radius), recorded every 1 second in your unit. This is for later slow-motion or accelerated playback over a map background on your home computer, after the race, to see where you were and how you moved relative to others around you.
    - Live tracking on the internet (similar to Irltrack or SPOT), updated every few minutes.
    - For smaller "loop" races (typical USA 100mi to 300mi desert or enduro race), live trackside tracking with 1 second updates. Utilizes a separate device for crew, spectators, and officials, with color display screen and map or terrain background, to "watch" the race via live 1 second tracking, showing dots moving on the screen as the vehicles move on the race course.
    - Runs on internal battery for 1-day event, or 48 hrs with small attached aux battery, or unlimited time with attached 12V vehicle supply. This allows non-rally bikes (those without 12V battery) to use it for shorter events, and rally bikes to use it for longer events.
    - Heading repeater NMEA output, for Tony!
    - Additional features and attachments for cars, since they don't have the tight space and weight concerns that motos have.

    The idea here is to combine useful features currently available on multiple existing units, and add valuable features never before available, into a single small lightweight rugged device that would be practical for mounting on motos or cars. I'm open to new ideas and suggestions!
  11. ArthDuro

    ArthDuro quarantined

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    There are some super smart ideas there. A super powerful Tripy +++
    What I have to say is that I always thought Digital Road books were a good idea. Yes the data in digital format is fragile and needs to be protected and yaddy yadda but there are ways of dealing with that, just the right thought process needs to be applied.

    Paper books for road book purists, it is all ok, but you and I both have printed them and know the challenges for a regular guy to produce and distribute them and also know the benefits a rally driver has when the co-driver is reading notes. (I think having a screen to review notes when lost is a good idea, even if not reading visually on the fly)

    I always thought that since we have all sorts of electro trickery time was right for some serious development on this end especially with all the devices around now that have pushed screen and processor tech to new heights. Then I saw tripy and its cool but could be even cooler.
    I like your thinking and I am others would.
    We need more out of the box thinking everywhere.


    Just saying, my 2 cents are not worth a whole lot.
  12. skibum69

    skibum69 slave to gravity

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    That looks like a tall order but I can see where it would be really nice for a lot of things, and obviously I'm nowhere near the electronics geek you two are:lol3
  13. Bluebull2007

    Bluebull2007 Adventurer

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    Well I for one hope that it NEVER goes electronic. I like the challenge of having to navigate in the old fashioned sense. This is why I enjoy rally riding so much.
  14. skibum69

    skibum69 slave to gravity

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    when are you moving to TO?
  15. Bluebull2007

    Bluebull2007 Adventurer

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    Probably in the next 2 months. :cry
  16. Hayduke

    Hayduke ///SAFETY THIRD/// Super Moderator

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    I'm with you. :nod
  17. skibum69

    skibum69 slave to gravity

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    agreed, there's nothing quite like having to stop to tape together separated roadbooks:lol3
  18. ArthDuro

    ArthDuro quarantined

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    I don't see how it could take away from the experience.

    It is still a road book. The information is just delivered through a digital display which if developed properly can be fantastic. If you don't think you could benefit from audio, just unplug the earphones.

    I agree that fixing stuff with tape is cool
    so if everyone goes digital at least you could still print from it for the paper purists. :D
  19. skibum69

    skibum69 slave to gravity

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    ok, D. get out and ride a really rally or rally style event and see what it's like. The organic feel of messing with real paper has to be experienced.
  20. Bluebull2007

    Bluebull2007 Adventurer

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    Plus its the nicest feeling in the world to pull out a roadbook at the end of the day. Its bling bling stuff too, non rally racers look at it and go "WTF?? :huh "

    We go "Yeah, real men do this...it not for pissies" and do the cool poser look. :lol3

    Imagine doing that with your geeky toy, they'll say "Oh I got one of those in my pickup" :ear

    Seriously:

    I guess rallying is about the difficulty of it. Making it easier seems...well that's not waht its about is it?