The Bivouac (general rallye raid news)

Discussion in 'Racing' started by PackMule, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. dakardood

    dakardood Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Oddometer:
    413
    I took my 690 out yesterday to give it a blast and I was queing at some traffic lights when a guy in the car next to me wound his window down and shouted out "Hey wtf is that thing at the top there" (pointing at the MD roadbook holder). Its happened a few times. :lol3

  2. skibum69

    skibum69 slave to gravity

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,907
    Location:
    New Melbourne, Newfoundland
    I hear that, I pulled up downtown on my rally bike one day and through my helmet I could hear a pirate woman saying "what the hell is that?" The only good side was that one of the other pirates standing with her responded with "it looks like he just came from the Paris-Dakar." Virtually no-one in Newfoundland knows what an offroad rally is.
  3. ArthDuro

    ArthDuro quarantined

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,118
    Location:
    Westsideistan
    I like roll charts, I have a few tupperware models myself.
    That is real navigation, none of this motor powered, back lit, alloy encased trickery that pansies use. Twist it by hand baby that is what real men do.

    Purists I tell ya...
    Nobody is talking about getting rid of it:deal have your printed books even if it is for bling alone and have all your masochistic/macho paper fun.
    This is just for those who like to improve things and consider progress a good thing.

    I have done my share of navigating from pace notes in both roll and sheet from. I have made my own notes for a bunch of routes I drive and ride and have been doing so since I was a kid. I was drawing tulips before I even knew what they were called. None of this matters though as this experience left me with these conclusions;

    taping things together = sucks (though it is slightly more tolerable when a whole host of other poor tired souls are doing it at the same at the time)
    cleaning rolling mechanisms = sucks (unless you are in your garage and have all the time in the world)
    printing chart books = sucks mostly (unless you like print in general but even then it wears off)
    making corrections with pen = pretty cool as long as you can see what you are doing and make the right ones
    being able to hear notes = pretty cool (ask any rally car driver and compare the pace they run)
    plotting a route = awesome (even better when you can do it digitally, save and share it, and make mods on the fly)

    Remember some cars had devices that improved the ease of navigation
    and they were banned from dakar. It sure wasn't because they were crap.
    There are obvious advantages there, if the field was level why not?

    Hogwild is proposing a device with some serious thought put into it. Would you guys ignore a rally because it doesn't use paper, eventhough the notes are paced? ...........Really???

    Challenge here is navigating by pace notes at speed not so much how those notes are delivered. There is the issue of efficiency that is being addressed. How the data from chart is communicated to the driver/rider.
    The road book has been progressing for 20 years there is no reason for that to stop.

    Purists also thought having 450s in the dakar would suck balls
    and end up in an apocalypse of motor parts strewn across the desert and
    riders baking in the sun cursing the ASO name (well this part happens anyways) by the hundreds, while being plucked at by vultures.

    progress...it is a pain isn't it

    Now I am going to go fire up my old dynaTAC because it has no speed dial
    and I really like dialing numbers. That is how real cell phoners phone.
    [​IMG]

    and I still love ya'll
  4. Bluebull2007

    Bluebull2007 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5,470
    Location:
    Oviedo, España
    :lol3 Im glad you got that off your chest, Art. We must definetly have a beer soon. :1drink

    I'll get you in touch with a friend of mine in RSA who also has this thng for building an audible roadbook. :deal
  5. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Oddometer:
    3,102
    Location:
    SoCal USA
    I have mixed feelings about paper vs digital display. For sure if it was a digital display, I would want it to show only the same info as is on the paper now, and in the same basic format. No maps, no colored line to follow, no corridor displayed, etc.

    The advantage of being all digital is you would not have to tape sheets together, fight installing it in the wind, tape it back together when it rips, etc. But with digital, it’s a bit trickier to mark it up with colored markers. Maybe everyone would have to have an iPad in the bivouac, and do all your markups on that, then download it via WiFi to the unit on your bike. Last minute course changes could be WiFi downloaded to your unit by the race organization, in the bivouac, or even on the race course as you pass by a checkpoint. For big teams trying to gain an advantage by mapping out the course ahead of time using the digital data, we already know it’s possible to map the Dakar course, even without the roadbook! :wink: And it’s easy to secure the raw digital data so it’s can’t be easily used outside the intended machines. How hard is it to snap photos of the paper roadbook pages, and email them to a team of Google Earth nuts?

    The advantage of paper is when it takes a shit, you can repair it with scotch tape. When electronics takes a shit, you’re up shit creek! And I would expect a large screen fully electronic roadbook device to be double or triple the cost of even an MD roadbook reader.

    For now I’m not interested in building a device that replaces the paper roadbooks. The audio course notes I’m working on are more for Baja 1000 type racing, not rally racing. There are other audio features that might be great for rally, such as “car approaching quickly from behind”, or for dusty conditions especially in cars “vehicle ahead, 10 ………... 5 ….. 4 …. 3 ….. 2 ….. 1”. A big part of what I’m aiming for is to help racers avoid running over or into other racers where visibility is a problem. This would apply to both Dakar and Baja 1000, for cars and motos. And by throwing in some other attractive features, I think I can make something that is worth the time and $ investment.
  6. ArthDuro

    ArthDuro quarantined

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2008
    Oddometer:
    3,118
    Location:
    Westsideistan
    :D

    In recent years almost everyone has been using some sort of a digital device to send info "back home" from the bivy. Everyone on this site can attest to the benefits of that. Most folks are tech savy enough to handle something like that. Having a choice of using an app on their crackberry or shyPhone to highlight their books and add exclamation marks may well be welcomed by some folks.

    The biggest challenge would be coming up with the device and making it good enough for the rigors of rally and desert racing. I truly believe that such a gadget can be developed with all the material and tech available to us. All of the safety aspects that Hog just mentioned would be huge pluses and you could make an argument life saving propositions.

    I mean it is all really good food for thought.
    The last paragraph in Hogs post pretty much sums it up.
    An aid which if developed properly could be come a lot more.

    cost is a big thing anywhere but a good product will usually be worth the price

    btw thanks for taking the time to read my loooong winded posts
    I have some time to type while waiting for things to RIP on my printer hehe (oh paper)
  7. garfey

    garfey Scruffy Adventurer

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Oddometer:
    7,686
    Location:
    Deep East Texas
    ... Charlie Brown!!!
    A guy goes camping with his new ridin' buddy for a weekend (he caught on to riding on the 640Adv, too) and stays a few extra days (well, 14 extra to be honest) and all kinda F5-ing opportunities pass him by! Will be home tonight and try to catch up.
    :D

    Attached Files:

  8. F650Dakar_Norway

    F650Dakar_Norway What off-season?

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,004
    Location:
    Norway, Scandinavia
    Latest from Pal Anders Ullevalseter's www.dakar.no:

    "The 1st-7th May Pål Anders should have participated in the rally Tunisia. But as already known this never happened.

    The reason: Pål Anders' motorcycle (and many of the other competitors' ditto) never arrived at the start. The bikes were transported by boat from Dubai to Tunisia, and was promised to arrive 27th April. Still the bikes have not arrived in Tunisia. According to Pal Anders they come to Genoa (Italy) on May 17th instead.

    Thus it was no more than 17.starters in Tunisia. Rally Tunisia chose to carry on the race, despite the organizers' responsibility to transport the relevant bikes from Dubai. Pål Anders and many more disgruntled riders have submitted a complaint to the FIM for organizers poor organization of transport. Neither Coma nor Despres participated in this World Cup round. And all those who have not had the opportunity to participate in the rally, also lost the ability to get the World Cup points.

    In addition to the loss of World Cup points, Pål Anders lost the money he paid to participate in this World Cup round. The organizers do not want to pay the money back, but there's a possibility that the money be transferred to later rally in Tunisia is present. This is no desirable situation for Pål Anders.

    In this logistical rally-chaos there are also other forms of chaos in Tunisia during the day. It has recently been riots, in which 2 were killed at the port where the boat with the participants went home now before the weekend.

    Tunisia was thus not as expected, and it turns out that Brazil rally has been canceled. In Sardinia rally will be for Enduro Motorcycles. Pål Anders does not know what's ahead.

    Results from the Rally Tunisia were as follows:
    1.Helder Rodrigues
    2.Jacub Przygonski
    3.Jacek Czachor

    The deadline for registration for the 2012 Dakar approaches. And May 15th Pål Anders hands in his Dakar application! This means that there are some competitive rally-raid racing in 2011, and the goal also this season is DAKAR!
    We come back with more information."


    He's now rally-modifying a KTM 450 EXC-R Factory Edition with all needed rally-mods, nav-gear and extra fuel tanks for the Sardegna Rally. It will have a 13 litre Acerbis front tank and 5 litre Meca Systems aluminium rear tank. A far step from the 450RR's 18+18litre setup, but good enough for the Sardegna Rally stages.
  9. zenjen

    zenjen Go Outside

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,662
    Location:
    Quartz Mtn. West end of the Wichitas
    Dos Sertoes? :ear
  10. Trang

    Trang ... 2nd last to the Sweep

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,111
    Location:
    Orange NSW Australia

    He's got a 450RR parked in the shed, but still elects to build up a Meca Systems 450 EXC for Sardegna :scratch
  11. F650Dakar_Norway

    F650Dakar_Norway What off-season?

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,004
    Location:
    Norway, Scandinavia
    Yepp. Puzzles me too, but it appears he wants to have a dedicated, lighter bike for the more technically challenging races.
    The Sardinia Rally stages will apparently have a more technical, enduro-like layout and may favourize the lighter enduro-bikes.
    And with the logistic trouble we've seen after Dubai - who knows if it pays off to have a spare bike anyhow.
  12. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Oddometer:
    7,734
    Location:
    THE exact center of California/Bass lake/Yosemite
    yep, no FIM sanction for this years suertos... The locals complained that the series regulars got up front privileges etc, I kind of lean to the extra costs of attaching the FIM.......I have told the Safari org to get a hold of the FIM and offer the rally up!!
  13. Hayduke

    Hayduke ///SAFETY THIRD/// Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Oddometer:
    45,087
    Location:
    Salida, coloRADo
    Best I've heard is "Is that a toaster oven?"
  14. SafariBerg

    SafariBerg Oz Safari Addict

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,106
    Location:
    Perth Australia
    The 450RR would put him at a real disadvantage at Sardegna Rally Race, this rally is much more EU enduro like in the terrain and tracks etc of the course, no bulky GPS nav gear etc either, lightweight & agile is the go, some even use 300EXC's
  15. SafariBerg

    SafariBerg Oz Safari Addict

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2007
    Oddometer:
    3,106
    Location:
    Perth Australia
    Dos Sertoes is still running this year, it's just not a round of the FIM world championship.............the organisers figured the costs of being FIM far outweighted the benefit, so this year its only a national level event.

    FYI Safari was also a FIM round in 2000, 2001, 2002, plus some earlier years, and ditto for the 1 or 2 euro riders it attracted the mega FIM fees were not worth the cost to the event, so it was dropped.................if being FIM meant that 20 EU riders showed up along with say the top boys like Coma, Despres etc then it would be worth it..............BUT FIM always made the series a best results at 5 events out of 6 will count for the final years placing results.......................so NO incentive for the EU guys to come out :huh
  16. Bluebull2007

    Bluebull2007 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5,470
    Location:
    Oviedo, España
    RE Hogwild: I like your gadget, because its going to make things safer for us.

    RE Dos Sertoes off the FIM list: Thats terrible news. I cant see what special treatment the locals got, they started behind the FIM guys, and there was no funny business. :cry Its a great rally. Fortunately there is enough local support for it.

    RE Hayduke toaster: :photog Brilliant. I have coke all over my keyboard now. :lol3
  17. Bluebull2007

    Bluebull2007 Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2008
    Oddometer:
    5,470
    Location:
    Oviedo, España
    This whole FIM thing seems like an overated old boys club. Maybe we should start our own SANZAR rally version....When we get famous we can also review Marc Coma's application before approving it. :lol3
  18. ThomasVolomitz

    ThomasVolomitz New Old Stock

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2010
    Oddometer:
    4,500
    Location:
    NE Ohio
    Regarding pirates, when I went to Daytona for bike week this year it was like Halloween. Don't reaLly care that the crazy cruisers aren't familiar with adv bikes. They are missing all the fun!
  19. skibum69

    skibum69 slave to gravity

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,907
    Location:
    New Melbourne, Newfoundland
    makes me want to buy a 690 RR as a new touring bike:lol3
  20. garfey

    garfey Scruffy Adventurer

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2010
    Oddometer:
    7,686
    Location:
    Deep East Texas
    Willie G. was standing right there when I peeled out of the (H-D) raingear at the V-Rod Meet 'n' Greet at Bike Week and his comment was, "Hey! You're a RiffRaff!" Nobody had a single negative thing to say about my being on the 640Adv instead of the Street Rod (dead battery and raining HARD for ~12 hrs), nor about the guy on the new Beemer R-Bike, and some knew exactly what the KTM was/is. But then V-Rods are the redheaded step-children of the Harley world, anyway, and V-Rodders march to a different drummer.

    That's me at right rear of the "Official" photo in KTM cap, Klim Inferno Riff Raff jacket, and JMo Racing tee, right before Willie G. signed my KTM cap.

    Aside, of the eight V-Rodders who went to breakfast after the MeetUp, three are/were Nuke Boat Bubbleheads. That says something in itself, IMO, but I'm not quite sure what.

    Attached Files: