The Bivouac (general rallye raid news)

Discussion in 'Racing' started by PackMule, Dec 23, 2009.

  1. Dread Pendragon

    Dread Pendragon throttle to the donk

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    Maybe the "TSC F5orce Award" . . . for some use of the f5orce.

    "Manuel, you’ve switched off your Iritrack. Is something wrong?"
  2. beechum1

    beechum1 Grimace Soup

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    getting antsy we are ummm
  3. DaveRMS

    DaveRMS Long timer

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  4. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5ool

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    [​IMG] Oh dear...
    <HR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #575757; COLOR: #575757" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->Quote:
    <TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset" class=alt2>Originally Posted by Drif10 [​IMG]
    Let the F5 begin...

    I'm hoping we can get the boys out hibernation for a little pre-season dakar. :D

    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
    Okay Drif,

    I'll f5-ing well jump in then with an observation from the darkside... :D

    The Maroc rallye sure is shaping up to be a real DAKAR formguide... if not a great competition/race in it's own right (this event region has a long history - almost that of Dakar - in terms of cross country rally history).

    And while I don't begrudge NPO the size and quality of the field for one minute (both MOTO/QUAD and AUTO/CAMION)... the quality of the field is second to none (except possibly dakar), with the top 30 moto and top 10 Auto entries reading like a who's who/creme de la' creme (with only a few notable ommissions in the auto field) of the current CCR competitors. This is quite obviously a testimony to the regard in which the event is organised, promoted and run... so I cannot help but wonder WHY this rally is not in the FIM/FIA World championship for Cross Country Rallies??? :scratch

    Just a week ago (or less) we saw the Pharoahs Rally (which is included in both the FIA and FIM calender) run andwon... with by comparison... what was only a handful of top line competitors in either category? :huh

    Whether this is due to the fact that either A). in some regards the "title" was already decided... and as such did not warrant the factories/teams to participate or B). some other political/economic reason why (most of the) the premier teams in both classes, seemingly give priority to another (non-title desert rally)... It still makes me wonder just how "valid" the FIA/FIM CCR World championship titles are, when the events on the series calender attract what can only be regarded as less that representative fields of the "best" teams/competitors in the particular sporting discipline!? :eek1

    Now I know that last year I stood on some toes when I commented on Helder Rodrigues CCR World Title win... and once again my comments were more along the lines of; "Why are there so few riders/teams participating in the championship" or "Helder really only had to beat one or two other top level riders to take the titel" as opposed to any negative reflection about the Portuguese champion himself, his dedication, talent or the proffesionalism of his (then 20011) Yamaha supported efforts.

    But I have always been of the understanding that a WORLD champion is the rider/driver/team that performs best, at a specific genre of motorsport, conducted at a number of venues around the globe, which reflect the countries and cultures, conducted under the same sporting parameters AND contsted by a selection of the best exåponents of that sport, from around the world.

    Tell me how can it be then that a "Cross country World Championship" can be comprised of;

    A.) two (albeit well run and apparently competitive/challenging) sand dune rallies held only a week apart from each other in what (by global standards) conducted in a relatively small geographic area that you could literally "toss a blanket over".

    B.) one etremely well promoted (but entirely different from the discipline of desert rally) event in the middle of summer on the resort like island of Sardinia... an event more akin to the rallye/enduro events of the continental european countries like Italy, Greece, Crotaia/albania etc. an event that is more like "B schedule enduro following roadbook" than a traditional marathon rally, as is evidenced by the prevalence of Rallye-"super"-lite bikes used at this event (ie: enduro bikes with a roadbook roller and ICO fitted) as opposed to genuine rally bikes (with fuel autonomy and equipment for 250 km + stages of competition).

    C.) the fourth (and final) round (Pharoahs), held only a week or so before another (non-titel event) which even though it is bestowed "World championship" status, only attracts a handful of top competitors... while the "non-titel" bout has billboard status with all of the weight divisions big hitters in the ring?! :huh

    It just does not make sense to me...? I have always been of the opinion that a "World Championship" was made up of "the best of the best, in the biggest arena"... but regretably have to say (that for most of the FIA/FIM World Cup/World Championship of Cross Country Rallies history)... most of these titles have been contended by "the rest of the less, at the what was left".

    DAKAR ( the biggest longest, oldest AND most important event on the calender, has NEVER been part of the titel), and there are events in many parts of the world (that at various previous times HAVE been part of the CCR World Cup) eg. Brazil (DesSertoes), Argentina (Las Pampas), Australia (Safari) and even some newly introduced events in Asia (Mongolia), now that would make for a truly global and representative "world championship"... but still the selection, and acceptance criteria for the rallies that do end up on the calender from year to year, seem to lack any form of consistency or scheduling (in regards to each other). More than once we have seen two events that are either so close (or coincide with one another) datewise, that it is physically (and economically) impossible - even for multiple rider/vehicle factory teams - to attend all events.

    Not to single the Sardinia Rally out - by all accounts a great event, professionally promoted and run, which attracts a great field of riders and sponsors. media and spectator interest. But what in hell does it have to do with Cross Country (desert) rally, when the top 50% of the field are 450/500cc enduro bikes, with a roadbook and trip meter on the cross brace.

    Gee... make a "European Championship" for events similar to this (there is a whole series of them in Italy) and the Hellenic rally, Albania etc. But to have this event as part of the "Cross Country Rally World Championship" (alongside events like UAE desert Challenge or the Pharoahs) is as ludicrous as when the "Baja Espana" and "Baja Italia" were part of the FIA's world cup. It would be like halfway throught the F1 series including a race for go-karts around the Maui Hiltons carpark as part of the "F1 World Title"... laughable. :lol3

    Back to the topic at hand... The Oilibya Rallye Maroc is shaping up to be a really great and competitive rallye... the quality of the field is (apart from Dakar in january) prabably the broadest and most competitive assembled this year. Just a shame (from my perspective) that an event of this calibre does not count (to the already decided) world title... when other (lesser) patronized (dare I say prestigious) event do. :dic


    Well, there you go Drif... that should pour some avgas on the "state of all things rallye" debate... :roflThis is possibly better placed/suited in the "Bivouac" thread (I will copy/paste to there), but we really only have YOU to blame mate... You opened the pandoras' box... :evil I just jumped in with my knickers in a twist... :lol3



    PS: Just to add another dimension to the cross fire... :gun2 :hide :shoot

    What about the Merzouga Rally? :ear

    Here's another (second) well run event in Marocco (early november) aimed/touted as a warm up for aspiring Dakar competitors (maybe a bit close to then end of the year if one has more problems than say a sprained ankle... but anyway?). It just serves to underline my criticism of the whole calender/planning thing. You see it time and time again... two (or more) events in geographically similar areas, targeting the same customer base, at more or less the same time... yet at other times of the year, there are scarcely anything on the diary pages.

    I know a lot has to do with climate, or certain nations holiday schedules etc., but still... sometimes I can't help but get the impression that it is like a bunch of ants arguing over who gets to raid the picnic table on the 4th of july weekend...

    ... yet there is food going to waste in the dumpster 364 other days in the year... :augie
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  5. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    Hi Troy - I'm sure it's purely political, and to a lesser extend financial... as I'm sure you are aware, nearly all of those rallies you list above have at one time or another been part of the FIM Cross Country World Championship - The NPO Maroc was until two years ago, and NPO also ran the Tunisie FIM event up until 2011 of course, until last year when it was cancelled...

    Des Sertoes was also an FIM round up until 2010 (when Bluebule raced it, albeit in the non-FIM class), but, like the Australia Safari perhaps - I imagine the logistics/cost of the top teams [who primarily reside in Europe] shipping their whole [factory] crews to South America and Australia meant the 'International' representation wasn't as high in those two events (as opposed to domestic entries), which is why the FIM dropped them, or don't affiliate them?

    Personally I totally agree with you - not only is a World Championship pretty lame when it currently consists of just 4 rounds (It used to be six of course), but the appeal of the 'World' championship is exactly that - it ought to be diverse in terrain and culture (which is why I think Sardinia offers a nice alternative, but only within a 6 round championship at least), and be held on at least 4 continents to make it truly 'World' class...

    Perhaps with the emergence of all these new events being held in Eastern Europe and Asia, we will see a new CCRWC round there in the near future? And if Brazil don't get a few Dakar Stages for 2014, then the reinstatement of Des Sertoes, or at least something in South America...

    Of course what we all really want is a USA round I'm sure...

    Jenny xx
  6. dox

    dox How much for the ape?

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    :nod

    Just not sure that the fan support would be there, but perhaps someday... maybe...
  7. Dakar Dan

    Dakar Dan Been here awhile

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    The events already exist for sure (Dakar, Maroc, Safari, Baja, Dos Sertoes, etc), so the biggest issues would be administrative, logistical and not the least commercial. Would the danger of a true world series of rallye be a kind of F1 league of motos due to the sheer cost? The greatest draw of so many rallyes is the grass roots accessibility and drama of it all and to finish as a privateer. No doubt there is nowhere near as much dinero$ available from the major manufacturers to field teams, let alone private sponsors, which really just leaves the energy drink guzzlers. And who knows how long it will be before that bubble bursts, or pops (burp).
  8. Trang

    Trang ... 2nd last to the Sweep

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    I think this sums up Troy's analogy of the current Cross Country Rallies circuit.

    :norton
  9. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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    Hi Troy!

    I guess last year I was a bit over-sensitive :D you know I am a Helder fan and of my conviction that the 2011 World Title was a very fair reward for his underdog efforts (even though I agree with your comments about the "weirdness" of this mini championship).

    Maybe that same World Champion Title (no doubt along with his two bronze medals at Dakar) helped Helder being offered the lead pilot role at HRC :thumb
  10. barrier

    barrier Says who?

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  11. barrier

    barrier Says who?

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  12. Bluebull2007

    Bluebull2007 Adventurer

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    I like this idea :thumb

    I suggest we keep it simple and have just two:

    1) Snowball award: For the toughest and longest suffering privateer that finishes.

    2) Kemal Merkitt Award: For the competitor who remains the most positive and full of beans.

    Maybe the two should be combined into the Kemal Merkitt award? :ear


    I did not know Kemal all that well but thought that would be something he would have supported being an inmate himself.




    Actually I came 8th in the Sertoes 2012 FIM WC class, I just did not compete in any other WC events. :ear
  13. neduro

    neduro Addict Super Moderator

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    All points well taken, both Troy and JMo.

    I would add that for many world championships (not all) shipping is something that the promotor handles. Of course this is more complicated on a rally than for a team that will operate entirely within a paddock (like WSB) and needs no mobile machinery of their own... but IMO, if they want a proper world championship, the way to accomplish that is by integrating events all around the world, and using economies of scale to make that affordable. It's a lot cheaper to fill containers in bulk, than for each team to have to one-off ship everything individually, and the promotor could arrange that and share the cost.
  14. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

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    Good points Ned. One small issue is that the Dakar really needs to be a part of the series. Why? Because for any team/sponsors/etc the Dakar is really the only rally that has a huge exposure to the non f5 fans of the world. Return on investment (which is even debatable for Dakar). So a FIM race has to be included, would this mean FIM need to "run" the world series? With ASO trying to get a Dakar series off the ground...would this mean ASO would need to "run" such a series? And from here the politics begin sadly........
  15. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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    [​IMG]

    Morocco ...

    Man the Mitsubishi 's got alot of miles clocked on em..

    SO .. who is gonna step in after both Mitsu and VW are now gone?

    Be a good chance for say.. volvo, subaru or any maker really...
  16. JMo (& piglet)

    JMo (& piglet) Gone a bit Baja

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    This would be cute... if it could carry enough fuel!

    [​IMG]

    Jx
  17. dox

    dox How much for the ape?

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    or spare wheel/tires for punctures!

    Either way, that's probably the coolest Fiat 500 I've seen :D
  18. Flood

    Flood F5lood.

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    From the Rally Maroc thread:


  19. Myway

    Myway Long timer

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    Bivouac thoughts, Now Maroc rally is going on.
    Dakar 2013 is coming.


    Is it a idea to set up a site, unfortunatly i can not do that.
    where after login dakarlunatics can place waypoints on a map with description and time of event.
    on a map with satellite background.

    DSS ASS CP crossings visitor area bivouacs assistence routes.



    Hoping also Peruan Chilian Argentian people, give that extra information for us or dakartourist on ther way.

    So everyone give a stone to the event, and we see a overview, the biggest event happings on the map.
    Time table from cp to cp with description. What happend between this, cp's.

    Or send gps coordinates with messages.


    LETS COMMUNICATE DAKAR 2013

    Fire your comments.
  20. Carlos M

    Carlos M www.motoxplorers.com

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