Posted the following in the Terra thread " I've noticed a lot of flamers in these 2 threads as well. It seems to be a load of crap to me... Oh it's a pig and the suspension sucks, get a used this or that... Totally juvenile. I don't own either of these bikes, but I like these models, and more importantly the OWNERS seem to be very positive about these new bikes. No, these bikes are not orange and they are not trying to compete with the orange machines. And by no means am I bashing Orange, great bikes with a different perspective and mission. My WR250r is decried as a pig as well... if I want to reduce weight, I should focus on my fat ass before I sink a dime into lightening my bike, it would benefit me and my riding.... If I lost 40lbs, my suspension would work better and the power increase would exceed a pipe and programer, not to mention the health benefits for me. (Cheaper too) I like the new nc700x too... that bike gets bashed as well. But guess what owners are loving them too, more importantly they are selling, just like the Terra and CRF. Not only are they selling, they are getting very positive reviews! All 3 represent a segment in the market that was largely ignored, affordable, multi-use, practical yet passionate bikes that want to be ridden everyday... My WRr falls into that category as well (though a bit pricey new), I put 7000+ on my first season on this bike! More than the last 3 seasons combined on my old xr650l, why? Because the thing just works... No fuss, no muss, just hit the button and go. I can go where ever I want, whenever I want (well wife and kid dependent) The fact of the matter is that I focus on riding more than the bike now, it is a liberating experience " The CRF thread is growing fast... And look at how fast the After-market is growing for the LRP. I like that L.R.P. Enjoy your new bikes, they are going to be popular and the market leader within the year for the segment. The Terra is the best of the 650 single segment IMHO.