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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by elkgrichard, Sep 19, 2014.
They would be the exact symptoms. Carcass isn't stiff enough to maintain shape and heats up.
How many fully loaded GL1800´s have been on the road since what 2000 (or 2001, or whenever the 1800 first came out)? And how many cases of blown rears - motorcycle tires - do you have during these 16-17 years of operation, that can be proven NOT to have resulted from any "user error", such as running on too low pressure...?
Sorry if I still find it a bit hard to believe, that the tire manufacturers are simply unable to produce a MC tire capable of holding together underneath a heavy motorcycle such as the ´Wing – _AND_, you can solve this perceived problem, by fitting a car tire... (note, that I´m not against doing it, I´m just simply wondering about that process of thinking, like, you´re actually smarter here, than a tire manufacturer, and you "need" to do this, for safety reasons).
Rocket III and Valk owners have been complaining about similar issues for well over a decade.
Sure the MC tire will fit, but they don't last, because +900lbs and 150ft/lbs of 2.3L motor destroys tires with enough grip to deal with the power, and if they go the standard Dunlop touring tire route they have both traction AND life issues. Its a select set of bikes that are all on the very outside of the weight spectrum.
My brother just got 20.000kms out of a Michelin Pilot Road 4 rear on his GSX1250F, that bike is heavy, although it´s not a ´Wing, and it has a lot of torque, and he does not ride it very conservatively at all. I think that´s pretty decent for a tire, that offers very good dry and wet surface grip, and cornering characteristics are at least adequate.
and I just got LESS that 4000km out of a Roadtech 01 two-up and loaded on a Multistrada
Come join the ranks then, and share the experience.
As the owner of another heavy motorcycle I've been quite disapointed at the wear rates of the motorcycle tires for my bike. Seems the motorcycle tire makers are perfectly content to make tires that are barely adequate to the load, and not much more.
Traction isn't the issue, heat and wear is. Sure the bike holds in the turns, but man is that fully inflated tire surprisingly hot to the touch. Visible wear in the tread after just a day of long interstate riding. That's riding solo without any camping gear or luggage.
Could the tire manufacturers build a better tire? I'm sure they could. In my experience, they chose not to.
My comment was about making that switch due to MC tires being unsafe, and quoting one case, where it was not even clear, why that MC tire failed.
You've posted several times in several different ways that you find it unbelievable that there are inadequate or barely adequate motorcycle tires for the heaviest of bikes. I'm saying, as have others, that it is indeed true. The motorcycle tires for the heaviest of bikes seem barely up to the job.
You brought up your brothers GSX1250F with its 20k miles on its tire. At ~566 pounds, it's not a heavy weight bike. Mine is several hundred pounds heavier at about 800 pounds. The GL1800 is about a hundred pounds heavier than mine at 900 pounds.
Your brother got 12,000 miles out of his tire. Fine. It's going to wear out much faster under a heavier bike. But even at that number, for many a wing rider, that's but a few months of riding.
Sure, if a person only rides a few thousand miles a year than replacing the tire every two or three or even four years isn't such a big deal. But for folk who rack up miles, that gets expensive fast, as well inconvenient.
So I can't say I blame them for trying alternatives. Equally can't say I blame them for crowing about successes they've had with alternatives.
Folks, I very much understand both sides of this argument. I "used" to be the "big mouth" that would give every argument known to mankind about why a motorcycle should NOT use a Car Tire (CT)...because I thought (wrongly so) that I knew everything there was to know about tires, from a scientific/physics background, and being an extremely high mileage rider. Looking back on it all now, I made a fool of myself by running off at the mouth about the "cons" of using a CT on a motorcycle.
Then.....a bright light shined above my head........and I decided that if I was going to have empirical evidence that a CT was bad for a motorcycle, I should speak from experience, and not from my ass (as it were).
I carefully shopped for the correct CT for my '13 F6B, installed a Michelin Primacy Alpin 3 "run-flat", and now....would not go back to using a motorcycle tire on the rear of my biggest bikes...if at all possible.
Little background, I was a test rider for Dunlop motorcycle tires in 2003. They had me riding well over 100,000 miles in that one year, testing tires for them, as the new GL-1800 had now been out for 2 years, and rider/owners of the new Wings were not at all happy with mileage and/or pressures. Honda was still reporting tire pressures from the old GL-1500s....which were wrong to be using in the radial tires/lower profile tires of the new GL-1800. After a year of testing, 10 full sets of new Dunlop tires, we determined that the proper tire pressures should be 40 psi in front, and 41/42 psi in the rear, dependent upon load being carried.
Answer to the "Insurance Denial Claims"....my '13 F6B was the bike I was on when struck by lightning, 9/5/13, and the bike had a CT on the rear. The insurance company never balked or batted an eye at covering everything in that claim. $ 10,200.00 electrical damage to the bike, and over $ 2,000.00 additional accessory coverage, and they covered it all.
Short background history for one example of motorcycle tires tires/load comparisons...in 1998 we had an IBA rally out of Ely, NV, with the sole purpose of determining WHO could ride the most miles in under 24 hours. I was on a GL-1500....which you could say was "loaded"...as I was carrying 14.8 gallons of fuel, and 2 bottles (32 oz bottles) of Nitrous. My rear motorcycle tire (Dunlop) did okay...it was well worn, but manageable, and I could still ride the bike home 800 miles after the rally. But the guys that came in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, all had low profile/higher speed tires on their BMW K1100LT.....BMW K1100RS...and Honda ST1100. They all ate up tires at an alarming rate, to the point that the guy that finished in 2nd place, with 1932 miles in under 24 hours, "had to" borrow the rear tire/wheel from a friend that was helping at the event, and not riding.....just so he could finish the 24 hour event. In case you're thinking this rider showed up with anything less than a brand new tire to start the event.....he use to own Reno BMW, and was a premier rider in the IBA, so he doesn't makes mistakes like that.
He basically melted his low profile/higher speed tire on the rear of his K1100LT. Whereas the higher profile, lower speed tire on the rear of my Gl-1500 was good for that event....and I was actually running at higher speeds for those 24 hours......(his 1,932 miles....versus my 2,156 miles...in the same 24 hours)
Dunlop has been scrambling for the past 15+ years to come up with new/different/improved tires for the Goldwing 1800, and they have yet to find a great tire...but they continue working on it. I have 100 % more faith in Bridgestones for my heavier bikes, than anything Dunlop has made in the past 15+ years, and yes...that is just my opinion.
My current Wing is still using a Michelin Primacy Alpin 3 "run-flat"....with a rubber plug in it, caused by a carriage bolt attacking my CT on the recent trip to Hyder, Alaska. The tire only had 8,000 miles on it, and I didn't want to replace a good tire, due to a simple hole in it , so I plugged it. Experienced at plugging tires, so it worked well. Just finished the Three Flags Classic ride from Canada to Mexico, with this same tire, and at times I was at speeds well over a ton, and was 100 % confident in my rear tire. Had an occasion to do some miles (700 miles) with a gal on her Triumph Tiger, which she has a room full of trophies from more than 25 years as a professional rider and moto-journalist......and at the end of the day I mentioned to her that I have a CT on the back of that Wing she has been sparring with all day. She couldn't believe it, as the bike handled slow and high speed curves like it was a CBR600RR.
All I should be saying is this: If YOU have not personally tried a CT on the back of YOUR motorcycle.....then YOU have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation...regards whether a CT is bad for a motorcycle.
Speak from experience......not from a judgmental point of view as a bystander.
Where is the chart that shows car tire to mc tire equivalents?
There is a whole website of darksiders
Hmmmmm, an intelligent and coherent response written from someone with lots of experience.
This thread is the classic example paraphrasing a famous quote:
"The definition of insanity is saying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
Yep its insane to run a car tire on a motorcycle.....ANY MOTORCYCLE.
No really try it.
Takes a little more effort to initiate a turn (remember these are on big heavy bikes) and it will track changes in the road more....like a squared off Dunlop touring tire does.....but you have the added bonus that if its flat you likely won't have to put your feet down, the bike will stand up at a light.
My observations on a Rocket III with a 225/50 Nitto on the back of it.
I helped a buddy with building that particular Rocket, to the tune of 200hp, after that he couldn't twist the throttle like at all with an MC tire, I suggested going Darkside to him. It took him two or three more rears that either wouldn't hook up would just melt in a 2000miles but yeah, he eventually hit the forums and bought a car tire.
Took a week or so screwing around with pressures, but once he got what he liked he loved it.
Ever see a 900 pound tank doing a wheelie at 90mph? That rocket would, it was something to behold.
Read up on the Iron Butt Rally, there are a goodly number of darksiders every year, and these are the best of the endurance crowd that are doing +50,000 miles a year.
Well call me crazy then... But who gives a freekin $#!t what uninformed,
inexperienced folks like you think anyway? I certainly don't. Go scream
until you're blue in the face for all I care. That won't stop me from enjoying
the benefits of using a car tire on my bikes. (in spite of the claimed perils
of doing so. Perils BTW, that have little to no basis in fact.) I'm happy with
my choices, you should be happy with yours. What I do does not pose a
danger to myself or others and I'm fairly certain that you do not have valid
evidence to the contrary.
I've been around the stink of this whole issue for so long that I have almost
become accustomed to the stench of and all the Oh,
I'll comment on it from time to time. But I do find it disconcerting at times,
not because of ignorance about what is good about using a car tire on a
bike, that ignorance just means they don't know enough about it. But rather
the stupidity of it when there is information out there... l (stupidity which is a
blatant, blind, knee jerk refusal to consider an idea outside their own frame
of reference.) There are loads of it showing it to be as positive as the those
that use car tires on their bikes say... and virtually zip showing it to be any
kind of danger that the naysayers proclaim. I would say more, but I think
the dead horse is dead again so I think I'm done here for a while... Wait,
sniff, sniff... I think I smell a fresh load of naysayer coming this way
I have ALWAYS wanted to ride one of those
To be fair that bike wasn't remotely stock....about 5 grand into the motor and I don't know what on suspension and brakes.
I put my first car tire on the rear of my 1500 Goldwing this past spring.
I have over 7000 miles on it so far and it shows no wear that I can see.
Holds the road like glue, rain or shine and corners GREAT!
It's always someone who hasn't tried it that tells you that
you shouldn't do it.
really lack of knowledge person. many, many motorcycles ran car tires back in the 1940s, '50s and 60s. go search old motorcycle pictures and do some historical reading.