the DR650 thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by sleepywombat, May 1, 2006.

  1. Xplorr

    Xplorr hoi polloi

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    Thanks Kommando for your reply. My plugs, while fairly new, are white, which would confirm your idea that there is a lean condition somewhere-- I would have expected some surging at interstate speeds if too lean but what do I know. I've been working my way down through jet sizes thinking if it wasn't surging or otherwise misbehaving, but running well, I could maybe lean it out more for mileage. I'll try a larger jet. This [carb] tuning business challenges my linear non-mechanical brain; I enjoy learning though. Many thanks for the help. Cheers :thumb
  2. kerosene

    kerosene Been here awhile

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    Not sure how well you guys can help in this vague thing.
    Bike: DR650, The bike is new to me (few weeks or a month now), well kept and runs like champ. Has big tank and after market petcock (non-vacuum line and has off position). Stock carb. (same petcock as in the picture just posted - yellow tank one).

    Few weeks ago bike the bike ran out of fuel while the petcock was set to "ON", I pulled over switched to "res" and cranked. No life, waited and cranked. Tried this over and over with no help. I pushed the bike to station. Filled it, waited and cursed my luck. And when I tried again I got instant life. Rest of that trip I kept it full enough to not touch reserves.

    Yesterday I wanted to purposefully try it again, run tank out of main capacity, switch to reserve and run that dry (spare in pannier). Bike stuttered when it ran out of main, switched to Res, all good. Then it ran out of reserve, full death, no stuttering.. I poured my 3 pint spare in the tank. No life. At all. Waited and waited, trying to crank every now and then. One point got to idle for a few sec but wouldn't run. choke made no difference.

    Eventually braining from the past incident I figured that the added pressure of full fill-up solved the issue. So I blew into the gas tank - tried and instant fire. Running all good like nothing happened.

    Sticky float needle? Would seem that it would rather stick open than close? Amy ideas? I removed the hose from the fuel tap and that was running freely.

    Has big tank and after market petcock (non-vacuum).


    Positives from the weekend - intimidators made a BIG improvement in handling. New 14/46 gearing is much much better on dirt and can still cruise 65mph and even 70+ without too crazy rpm. Despite being jetted to low altitude and after market exhaust, hi comp piston etc. it ran great all the way past 9500ft (the highest I hit).
  3. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

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    There are some IMS tanks that have trouble with fuel flow when the fuel gets lower. The uphill loop from the petcock to the carb will get an air bubble and vapor lock. A fuller tank has enough fuel pressure to push fuel through. Other guys with the IMS have no problems with this loop.

    You're trying to get this loop as low (flat) as possible.

    [​IMG]
  4. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Backyard Adventurer

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    Thanks, all, for the discussion of the DR and weight distribution.

    Neither of the areas outlined in red endear me to the Husky, lol. I use my bikes for commuting, and easily rack up 10k miles in just under 7 months... so rebuilding twice a year would seem excessive ... especially with as dear as BMW feels their parts are. BMW, to me, wants to keep their parts - this can be seen in their pricing of them. I feel that if BMW wants those parts so bad, then they should keep 'em. :D

    Moreover, for the premium costs of BMW's, I'm not inspired by their engineering ability, either, compared to the Jap bikes. This would have been my fear with Husky even if BMW didn't own them... but it's actually doubled the concern, now, instead of halved.

    Do I still want one? hell yes... but i have to be real about riding the sands once every few weeks vs. riding at 84 MPH on the highways (about 35 miles of highways, plus side streets, each way). In reality the DR platform with a twin cylinder ~800cc would be what I was after - and yes, that would be way heavier on the front end, but I could deal with that trade off for the power and speed the motor could handle.

    My questions here, which you guys answered very well, were more inquisitive to see if i could have it all if I were to accept having a single-cylinder. It doesn't seem like I can though, but maybe the DR650 is still the bike to try (since the option of a big bore kit is available). I'm torn between a budget that can't afford a 990cc KTM, and trying to get something even close to an Africa Twin... but without the headache of an older bike or support structure of a rare-for-the-USA bike.
  5. kerosene

    kerosene Been here awhile

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    Thanks I definitely have more "uphill" on mine. Will check it this week.
  6. zdiver1

    zdiver1 Been here awhile

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    this is a good place to hang out on.
  7. doug s.

    doug s. Long timer

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    if you can handle the weight once every few weeks, you will love the dr650. to me, it's a featherweight, but that's cuz my other bikes are a '95 buell s2 and a '78 ducati darmah! :lol3 but, i can tell you my dr650, set up w/motard wheels/tires, improved suspension, upgraded intake exhaust (fcr39 carb/tsukigi-gsxr1000 muffler/kientech hi-flo midpipe/fmf hi-flo powerbomb header), is so much fun on the street, it's ridiculous. and, w/stock gearing, it has no problem cruising at 80, w/blasts higher, if you so desire... big bore kit is not really needed, imo; the bike is plenty fast as-is.

    last week, i went riding w/my ex brother-in-law; he took my dr, and i took his dl1000. we went blasting down country roads and highways; he was amazed at the grunt of my bike. and, he's ~6'-3" and ~235lbs presently... if i were wanting to do a lot of off-roading, i'd simply get a set of dirt wheels/tires and call it a day... i'm 6'-0" and only ~155lbs, and i have picked up bikes >450lbs, so i don't see the dr being a problem...

    ymmv,

    doug s.
  8. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

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    I tend to agree with your comments about BMW. I assumed you would buy a used Husky ... one made by Husky before the BMW take over. Maybe I mis-read your first post or missed some of it. But with BMW running things it's likely parts availability would be good ... but expensive. That's why I own a DR650 and not a BMW ... or Husky. (still, very nice machines)

    I thought you were asking how the DR is in sand. Did you mention commuting 10K miles in 7 months? I thought you were looking for a dual sport bike with emphasis on dirt riding in sand? Guess I missed that part.

    All that said ... the DR650 is a fantastic commuter. Fast, smooth and super reliable. (mine is at 45,000 miles) If set up right it's better than any twin or other big adventure bike in sand or anywhere off road. No brain-er ... it's 130 lbs. lighter weight than a 990 or F800GS. Now price a used DR650.
    :clap Best value today in motorcycling, IMHO.

    If you can afford it ... I'd get any economical street bike for commuting .. and buy a dirt bike for dirt riding. 10,000 miles takes a long time to accumulate if riding only off road.
  9. kerosene

    kerosene Been here awhile

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    my bike at 9400 or so ft. Seems to run fine from sea level l to here.

    [​IMG]
  10. Go Irish75

    Go Irish75 Been here awhile

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    My "uphill" with the new Acerbis tank for the DR is even way more severe than that. When I first installed it, it wouldnt flow any fuel at all, even with a full tank. I could NOT figure out how to get fuel to flow UPhill. So i disconnectd the fuel line from the carb and pointed it down and turned on the fuel for a second and it gushed. So now with fuel in the line I reattached to the carb and it runs great, no flow problems. Its all working on the siphon principle which says that liquid wants to rise to its own level, so as long as the fuel in the tank doesnt get lower than the high point on your "uphill", it will flow in all sorts of directions to get as high as the level in the tank. (all new to me, i was never a hooligan and siphoned gas as a youngster.) My question is what happens if I run out of the main, creating no fuel in the line, then I want to switch to reserve.....Will it again have flow issues? I ran the carb dry by accident the other day by running it dry with the petcock in the off position, and as it sputtered, I turned it to ON and it came to life, so there was no flow problem there, but I'm still worried about the flow when I hit reserve. The guys running Agualine Safari tanks must have some good answers on this. I even tried to bend over the fuel inlet tube to flat, but it would NOT budge. I've seen others do this, so maybe the carb has to come off and apart to accomplish this.
  11. kerosene

    kerosene Been here awhile

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    Do as I did - blow in the tank. As you have your moth over the gas cap keeping pressure the fuel fumes will rise to your mouth. not so nice.

    But that is exactly what happened to me on the 1st time I had trouble. Ran min dry and tried switching to res - no life.

    If fuel pressure from gravity is lower than the buoyancy of the air bubble there will be no flow.
  12. Stopelizard

    Stopelizard n00b

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    Apr 12, 2009
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    I'm running an IMS/Pingel set up with a relatively horizontal clear fuel line. When I switch to reserve and there's no flow, I "flick" the line with my finger, the air bubble heads north & the fuel starts flowing.
  13. ADV8

    ADV8 Taumarunui..Darwin..

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    The Safari tank needed that every time I went to reserve on the move,only stopping (no choice there) and blowing in the vent hose would get it to spring back to life.
  14. kerosene

    kerosene Been here awhile

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    blowing into the vent hose seems 100x smarter than what I did. And I was feeling so smug about solving the issue on the roadside. live and learn :)
  15. motolab

    motolab Long timer

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    Make sure that the slide, slide guide and emulsion tube are not worn out. Make sure that the slide lift hole area has not been increased. See http://www.moto-lab.com/<wbr>gallery/view?itemid=304, http://www.moto-lab.com/<wbr>gallery/view?itemid=303, http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=348, http://www.moto-lab.com/<wbr>gallery/view?itemid=300, http://www.moto-lab.com/<wbr>gallery/view?itemid=298 and http://www.moto-lab.com/gallery/view?itemid=305.

    The rubber tip of the float needle should be inspected under magnification. It should perfectly conical, with no witness line evident where it was contacting the seat. If any evidence is visible, or if there is a gap between the bottom edge of the rubber tip and the aluminum portion of the needle, if the plunger is stuck, or if the plunger return spring is sacked out, the needle should be replaced. Not doing so means that the float valve is leaking, or will begin leaking soon. While the float cage is removed, you should inspect the float needle seat and cold start enrichment feed pipe o-rings. If they are shrunken, hardened, cracked, deformed, or otherwise damaged they should be replaced.

    Using a float setting tool, set the float height to 14.7 mm and adjust the idle mixture. Procedure for setting the float height:

    Hold the carb in one hand and hold the base of the cage tightly against the carb body with the index finger of the same hand. Rotate the carb so that the float tang just contacts the float needle's spring loaded plunger, but does not depress it. With the other hand, using a float height setting gauge set to 14.7mm, check the float height on both sides (as the float may have some twist in it). Bend the float tang until the tang on the float height setting tool just contacts the float, but does not depress it.

    Procedure for setting idle mixture:

    Start the engine and warm it up. Lower the idle speed below the factory spec. Starting from a setting that is known to be lean (1-1/2 turns is likely but not guaranteed to be), adjust the fuel screw to obtain the highest idle speed. Adjust to 1/8 - 1/4 turn richer than that. Then, adjust the idle speed back to 1500 rpm. Report back with the final fuel screw setting.

    Put some tape on the throttle housing and the edge of the grip. Mark zero throttle with a sharpie. This is best done with the engine idling, so you can tell when the slack in the cable has just been taken up. Turn off the engine and mark wide open. Now take a tape measure (metric works best in my opinion) and measure the length of the arc. Put a mark at the mid point. Duplicate this procedure to mark the mid-point between here and zero throttle opening to get 1/4 open. Repeat for 1/8 and 1/16 openings.

    Then tune from the top down, i.e. get the right main jet in it for proper wide open throttle operation, then set the needle clip position for correct operation at 1/4 opening, then install the correct pilot jet for proper operation at 1/16-1/8 opening. Readjust the idle mixture after every jetting change. Without the ability to dyno with 4- or 5-gas analysis, I would go progressively leaner until there was just the very beginning of a discernible misbehavior. On the main jet, I would then go 2-3 sizes richer. On the needle clip, I would then adjust 1-2 positions richer. On the pilot jet, I would install 1-2 sizes larger. Please do bear in mind that if you have high compression, poor exhaust flow, low octane fuel, and/or ignition timing that is either correct or overadvanced for the correct mixture, tuning via this method could cause detonation and therefore engine damage.

    Regards,

    Derek
  16. motolab

    motolab Long timer

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    It will also cause accelerated slide guide, slide, emulsion tube and jet needle wear.

    Regards,

    Derek
  17. Mambo Dave

    Mambo Dave Backyard Adventurer

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    Thanks doug and Grifter.

    No, I wasn't too specific of my needs, sorry. I was more asking about the DR and other bikes knowing well enough that my own needs have to be taken into account.

    The most recent example of a modern-day dual sport bike I've sat on, besides WeeStroms at dealerships, was a KLR650 that I was allowed to test ride. I found it to be a very neutral riding position, and just about exactly what I would want for a commuter bike... even on the highway. ... Except for a few reasons I don't want a KLR, I'd rather have the DR650. My point only being that the neutral riding position of such bikes seems better than anything I can currently find in a modern road-motorcycle that I could, or would, use instead to commute on.

    One of my current bikes has no fairing, and the other has a tiny windshield that only comes into effect in a full-race tuck... so I'm kind of used to not having a fairing for high speeds, rain, etc. In fact, once it gets hot the lack of fairings or windshields probably helps push air (albeit hot, humid air) through my mesh ATGATT stuff.

    Also, due to my parking needs, and doing my own work on the bike, I prefer lighter bikes. The Vulcan I have is about the heaviest I'd ever want to deal with for where I live since I have to move the bike around tight areas sometimes, or lift one end of them to adjust them on a home-built stand.

    I'd probably start with the original wheels and just put street-tires on it until I researched super-moto wheels. Right now i ride through so much heavy and standing rain that a narrow 21" front tire works the best for maintaining higher speeds when all of the cars slow down to ~15 MPH to avoid hydroplaning, or because they just can't see. I don't like slowing down when I have 40 miles to cover, so I would worry if a typical super-moto 17" front wheel with its wider, but shorter, tire would hydroplane too easily since it is both wider and spinning faster than the 21". I could do the other things needed to improve the suspension to make it a stable highway / street bike, but I may not be able to give up on the cutting ability of a 21". We don't really have the curvy roads and such to make a super-motor wheel-set worth it around here anyway. 350 miles to the North, maybe, but not here.
  18. ADV8

    ADV8 Taumarunui..Darwin..

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    Anyone have an idea what a DR engine weighs thanks.
  19. amitos23

    amitos23 Adventurer

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    42
    Thanks,
    The picture is misleading perhaps, I changed the wire location for "above" the bolt and re-tightend, after I took this pic, if that what you mean.

    I'm 3rd owner, I'd say it had about 70%-30% street-offroad so far, with the occasional single-track during a trip (capabale of, but not intendent for).

    Major "wear" maintenance was piston and affiliates at ~80k-km (50k-miles),
    EBC DRC kit clutch at 90k.km (60-k miles) and again now (friction plates only).
    Wheel bearings maybe 2-3 times, I hold a second knobbies set.

    Most important - scheduled caring - tighnings, lubricating, oiling, etc in closer intervals than in the manual; and riding at 90% load rather than 110% load.

    The oil pump gear was never replaced AFAIK, checking closely it has no wear, so I didn't replace it.

    [​IMG]
  20. Davemacduf

    Davemacduf Adventurer

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    Hello Moto amigos,
    I need help please. My friend Wolfgang (Germany) is travelling in the the Southeast USA. Presently in Louisana and heading for Miami. He is on a DR 650 which he brought from Germany and has ridden all over South America as well as Central America,Mexico and now the USA. His plan is to finish in Alaska eventually. The moto has about 100,000 mile on it and is running poorly. The biggest problem is the upper end is worn so badly it has to be pushed to start as it no longer pulls in fuel when cold.
    This has been a travel of a lifetime and if he can get another 12,000 miles out of the old Suzy he will complete his dream.
    He would like to find a good used upper end complete or possibly another option would be to buy an older used with a decent total engine.
    I am David and live in Ecuador but am from San Diego,Ca. I met Wolfgang on the border with Peru and we have taken many rides together.Earlier this year we Left Cuenca,Ecuador (my home) and watched the Dakar Rally in Peru continuing on into Argentina and Chili.
    It gets a little lonely in a foreign country especially when one has moto problems. Wolfgang is one great guy and will appreciate any help possible on this problem.
    This is a 1996 Suzuki DR 650
    I will have Wolf look in on this post to see replies. Many,many thanks for any help possible.
    David,the mcduf in Cuenca