the DR650 thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by sleepywombat, May 1, 2006.

  1. johnkol

    johnkol Been here awhile

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    That's precisely what I have been saying. For the last two decades I have been riding bikes that have had rigid frames, excellent suspension components, and great motors. They were not misbehaving, they were not giving me any wrong signals, they were willing and very accomodating partners in our riding game.

    And then I hop on the DR and I am transported twenty years back to a place I really don't want to revisit; been there, done that, I want something more.
  2. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

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    For it's intended use and target user ... the suspension is actually not bad, especially considering this was 1996! How many dual sports, even modern ones, use 43mm forks. How about BMW? Nope.

    The DR650 target rider weight for the DR650 was around 150 lbs.
    In moderate riding, a 150 lb. rider can actually do OK, ON or OFF road.
    I weighed about 170 lbs. in '96 and was impressed. It was SO MUCH nicer than my XR650L which I sold after only a year of trying to make it work.

    But the DR is far from perfect, fast riding it gets out of shape, but mild riding and commuting, its fine. It was never designed as a race bike.

    The stock 43mm KYB forks are actually FINE ... for more aggressive use they need heavier springs and better valves, maybe heavier oil (like Race Tech or Intiminators). Once set up CORRECTLY , they are not too bad. The shock is Less Good and the rebound damping goes away at about 15K miles. Still, a simple rebuild will change your world. See Cogent, ProCycle or rebuild the KYB shock yourself. Not really that hard.

    You do make a good point as to how much of what Rodney suggested Suzuki actually DID. I'm sure BUDGET was an major issue ... and I'm quite sure Mr. Smith was well aware of this and accepted that only some of what he suggested would be acted upon. That' the corporate world. BTW, Rodney was also involved with R&D of the DRZ400. Shame they haven't updated that bike either. It was good in 2000 ... now? Not so much.
    (I owned two of these as well)
  3. TRAVELGUY

    TRAVELGUY Old Traveler

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    Yes same guy. Dave and his DR are alive and well, one of the nicest guys I have ever meet.. I road his bike a few months ago when we got together at the Hubb Rally in North Carolina, he posted being there and asked where the other DR riders where, we were the only two. It was a shake down trip for his bike of 700 miles each way. I only had a 350 mile ride to get there. I was impressed with his modifications. He rode mine and seems to be equally impressed. We went, as far as modifications, in different directions to reach a similar goal. I used stock forks with Ricor valves and a Procycle rear shock, Suzuki lowering option, and staying with a stock carb. You have read his build so you know what he did. My subframe is not gusseted. After seeing his luggage I feel he made the ride move to gusset, he and I have always over packed, but I am starting to try and travel lighter, may not succeed in being as light as I would like. Although I have a new Procycle TM40 still new in box Dave said after riding my bike that I should not go to the trouble of changing my stock carb because there would not be that much change in performance. My DR does seem to run exceptionally well, not sure why. I did like the quick response of his TM40 when riding his bike.

    My reasoning or motivation for staying as stock as possible is if I need replacement parts during my travels they should be easier to obtain. In all my travels I have never had bike problems, not even a flat tire, but feel the odds are against that happening forever so I over prep and carry spares.

    So yes Dave is alive and well and hopefully will do his trip to South America in the near future.

    TravelGuy:clap



  4. johnkol

    johnkol Been here awhile

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    Nothing to do with the environment; it depends solely on the impact forces.

    Nothing to do with the motor; motor forces are longitudinal, frame flex is mainly along the transverse plane.

    No. Again, the forces from a washboard road are along the longitudinal plane, you need transverse forces to excite frame resonances.

    Picture a seam without any height difference between the left and right planes; suspension is not involved.

    I could start expounding on the physics of sharp impacts, Fourier transforms, low pass filters, and resonant frequencies, but something tells me that you're not really posing these questions in order to learn anything new.
  5. neo1piv014

    neo1piv014 ADV in training

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    The stator and pickup coil really aren't that difficult to replace. Including the oil, filter, and parts, I replaced the pickup coil for <$100. A new 250 watt stator from Procycle is around $250 (if I remember correctly). Out of all the things that could go wrong on your bike, those really aren't that tragic. The sidestand could be giving you problems on the highway because of the greater force applied by that wind speed. If the spring is weak after all those miles, maybe the wind is blowing it down just enough to take pressure off that switch. I'm not sure how feasible that is, but it's worth checking.
  6. MikeyP

    MikeyP Adventurer

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    I have to say John, I'm applauding your not losing patience as everyone tries to change your mind or offer suggestions, but I wonder why you're here. You've had the DR for a while, hate it, don't seem interested (to me anyway) in hearing suggestions about how you might be able to improve it, and are actively looking for a new bike. What are you hoping to get out of participating in this thread? To paraphrase your statement, it doesn't seem like you're here to learn anything new. Not trying to be a jerk, but as this goes on I'm becoming curious.
  7. MikeyP

    MikeyP Adventurer

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    And I should say that as someone who enjoys learning, regardless of who is right or wrong, I've been enjoying this discussion because I know nothing about frame flex properties.
  8. Escaped

    Escaped Been here awhile

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    Kinda reminds me of the guy who started the tread on how much better a husky is than a DR650. OK go ahead and buy a husky, but I and many others are very happy with the DR650.

    At some point it become like trying to argue politics or religion.:lol3

  9. joefromsf

    joefromsf Dark Happens

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    As already mentioned, it could be the pickup coil.

    Another possibility is vapor lock. Stock or aftermarket gas tank?
  10. Richguzzi

    Richguzzi Adventurer

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    Oh big words, getting dizzy and sleepy, must get air, brain seems to be shutting down better go take a ride before head explodes... too much information....too much:kboom :1drink
    Wait wait, what was this about exciting frame resonances?
  11. Timan

    Timan Been here awhile

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    Did the search once again and didn't find a clear answer. I'm bringing a '04 back to life after it sat for couple years and have an issue (I think) with the petcock. It's a stock tank, petcock, and carb. I had the tank off for about week stored in my trailer. When I went to reinstall it had obviously leaked about 1/2 cup of gas in my trailer. Will the float system prevent gas from entering the crankcase? Is the petcock rebuildable or am I better off to replace with the Raptor? petcock I read about? If I do the Raptor deal, do I have to modify anything else? Is the Raptor a m/c model or is Raptor an aftermarket part like Pingel?
  12. neo1piv014

    neo1piv014 ADV in training

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    If you're living in Should-land, the carb float should prevent the gas from entering the crankcase. The upside to the stock petcock is that it's vacuum operated, so if there's no vacuum being drawn, it won't flow fuel. Now, since yours is clearly not on board with that plan, you're counting on the float to keep things in check. For as cheap as the raptor petcock is, I'm not sure rebuilding the stock one is worth it. If you do the raptor deal, you just need to make sure you set it to off when you're parked as it will constantly try to flow fuel. I have this petcock, and as much as I forget to do that, the float has worked just fine.
  13. P-P

    P-P Adventurer

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    That's the best plug reading guide I've ever seen! Thanks!


  14. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    There's no rebound adjustment on the stock DR shock...except changing the oil weight. That can have it's drawbacks too though.
  15. ER70S-2

    ER70S-2 Long timer

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    The Raptor petcock is a Yamaha Raptor ATV, I think. And it's about 1/3 the cost of a Pingel.

    There are two possible leaks in the BST, one being the needle and seat. The other is the larger o-ring on the float assembly. If either one leaks, you could fill your airbox and crankcase with fuel. Add the possibility of me leaving the petcock on for two or three days is probably 100%. The stock petcock is rather expensive but the chances are that yours only needs to be cleaned out.

    [​IMG]
  16. shu

    shu ...

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    Good thinking here. My DR behaves in a similar manner when the IMS tank locking gas cap vent gets plugged. (Procycle says to fix it by poking a hole in the rubber disk under the green plastic piece. I've done that and it works for a while, but needs poking with an ice pick every now and then to keep the hole open).

    [I]Originally Posted by procycle:
    The locking cap has a small rubber disk inside it that acts as a one way valve so fuel doesn't splash out through the internal vent. You can access the disk by removing the rubber gasket and unscrewing the green plastic piece inside the cap. Take a sharp pointed pick and poke a tiny hole in the disk and you will solve the venting issues. The hole should be barely more than a pinhole. If you make the hole too big you might have a small amount of fuel spillage in a tipover.[/I]


    Another possibility is the small filter on the breather from the carb. Mine had a tiny piece of rag sucked in there and had similar symptoms to what you describe.

    Both of these would be easy to check out.

    ................shu
  17. PPCLI-Jim

    PPCLI-Jim Been here awhile

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    OK Johnkol get rid of the DR and get something else . No one is stopping you,from doing that. I like a few others are wondering what you are trying to really say . Is it you don't like your DR 650 , but you have said it's a good solid bike in stock form as long as your not pressing it.You like the other bikes you have owned, fine. Go ride them I thought this forum thread was intended for the free transmission of information about the DR 650. If your really interested in riding another bike go to it. Don't let us stop you. While there has been some back and forth about ideas and fixes I really see no end game for you (JMHO). I mean your calling it down by piece from the frame, suspension and motor. If your that bummed out about it, get rid of it get the bike you want and join that thread of the bike you own. For a bike that was developed about 20 yrs ago I and others think it's a great bike. NO bike stock will ever be 100 % its all a matter of preference. If you want a KTM, BMW, Yamaha Honda ETC., get one but there will always be something someone else will add on or modify on it. Thats what I learned when i started riding in the early 70's. If you buy something that was designed 20 yrs ago yes it will be showing flaws in comparison to newer models. I remember my YZ 125 A geez was it a beast didnt know it at the time but now forget about it. I also remember when works bike didn't have 38 mm forks or over 6 inches of travel. now a days its tough to find a bike that doesn't have 8 " of single shocked rear suspension and at least 40 mm front tubes. It's all comparative after reading your posts throughout the thread I am still left shaking my head as to why you still have it, or if you dont have it why you kept it longer then a week.. my 2 cents peace out :gerg
  18. dogjaw

    dogjaw plays well alone

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    "What he didn't tell us was that he was a direct lineal descendant or Balaam's ass, but we knew it without him telling us"
    Mark Twain, "Roughing It"
  19. Rusty Rocket

    Rusty Rocket Life behind "Bars"

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    The Raptor petcock, is indeed from an ATV by Yamaha. I bought a Raptor petcock for about $20 from the dealer. Don't make the same mistake I did. I bought the O-ring that seals it against the tank. Didn't have to, it comes with the petcock. The only thing you have to do is plug the vacuum line for the stock petcock at the carb, Oh, and remember to turn off you gas when you are done riding. I like mine and I'm very glad I made the change.
  20. Feelers

    Feelers Been here awhile

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    You're right, John. I was posing the questions to try to break through the barrage of what seems to be a bunch of BS designed to impress people who never heard your technical vocabulary before. I understand that sideways forces might cause sideways frame flex. I understand what resonant frequencies are. I've used fourier transforms - but am quite rusty. And I know very little about dampening with frequency filters. If the frame does flex, it doesn't bother me; however, as a curious young lad I would like to verify your hypothesis using my bike. What are some specific maneuvers that would allow me to feel the frame flex - besides the seam thing...

    So, you assert that only a sideways impact force can give the proper jerk to excite the resonant frequency. I think this essentially relegates the problem to going over a bump or edge while leaned over. Yet, you stated that a wandering feeling exists while riding down the road. If you are just riding down the road, there should not be any transverse forces acting on the bike. It also means the frame flex phenomenon should only occur while leaned, and go away once upright. Is that true? Also, on a smooth road, would this flex manifest itself during a sweeping turn? Without impacts, it should not, right? Does the frame only flex under a considerable force (bump or edge), or does it flex under less force (smooth sweeping turn)?
    I'm not a racer or anything, but my DR actual feels more stable in turns (smooth or rough) than my CBR 600...