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Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by sleepywombat, May 1, 2006.
Thanks to him, I'm still running the wiring harness outta that baby.
My Pick-Up coil went out and I replaced it with the $40 mail order one. The symptoms were: hard starts, missing while riding, weak spark, then NO STARTING. Tried again later and it would start and run a while... then die.
Ordered the replacement pick-up coil, installed it with new engine cover gasket and has worked great for about 9K miles. Bike now has over 49K miles.
If it was Shinko 705's then they'll out last the trip.
I get 12,000km from a rear and 23,000+ from a front.
Bloody good tyres.
I agree. i'm on my 2nd set. Not much good off road but fine on easy dirt roads and great on pavement.
I would re-consider the Shinko tires. Cheap and good. Buy them mail order .... AHEAD OF TIME!
Shops rarely stock anything. I never rely on them to have anything on hand. They will FOR SURE ... bend you $$$ over $$$ and laugh at you. I've seen guys pay $150 for a tire you can get online for $65. Sound familiar? Mounting and balancing ? Same deal. OUCH!
Unless you're near San Bernadino, CA at Chapparrel (they are HUGE, stock everything on site), most shops are limited. Cycle Gear is pretty good in the Bay area. Out in AZ ? Dunno?
I don't know how far you intend (or intended?) to go in Mexico or for how long ... but I can tell one thing: you made an error right off the top by not PLANNING AHEAD for your tire change.
Do you ever look at your tires? Did you not notice you were running out of rubber long before you got near the border? Do you know Ray's Rule #1 for Mexico? 1. NEW Tires/Tubes front and rear.
I would have ordered tires on line a week or ten days ahead and had them shipped to a friendly Motel along my route ... or a friendly shop. I've done this. It works.
To really save some money ... once you get the tires, cross into Mexico and go to a nice looking Llanteria (tire shop) and for $3 to $5 let them change your tires. YES ... I've done this a few times too. Llanteros are everywhere ... in every town!
If doing big miles into Mexico then carrying a spare rear tire is a very good idea IMO. Fronts last (over 10k miles?), but most rears only go 4 to 7000 miles, depending on which tire, your load and pace.
There are a few good, high mileage road tires that fit the DR650 120/130-17. I've used 3 Avon Distanzia's on my DR ... usually get 7 to 8000 miles out of a rear. Also very good is the Michelin Anakee. But the big miles winner is the Metzeler Tourance. You could see 10K miles from the expensive Tourance. (if your road speeds are moderate)
In Mexico ... DO NOT neglect bringing spare tubes. Hard to find good one there. The Llanteros can do amazing work patching tubes ... but having a couple spares is the smart way to go. Once a tube splits .. it's done ... and so are you!
What's the problem? Order tires online and get them overnighted, or have them sent ahead of time if you don't want to haul them with you.
Shinkos are cheap, but many people rack up some decent mileage with them. I run cheap Kendas too, and some of them go over 10K miles on a rear tire. I haven't had any issue with Shinkos or Kendas yet, but I know that some people have delaminated/chunked some. It happens even with expensive tires though, so I don't really sweat it when I pay less than $30 for a tire.
I just turned over 3,000 on my 705's, and my rear is definitely starting to show some flat spotting. Then again, 90% of the miles I've put on these tires has been highway commuting. The front isn't really showing much wear at all, though, so it may take me a while to burn this set out.
Southwest Moto Tire is in Tucson, they used to have most everything.
I'm sure you have done this but I've been looking through the wiring diagram for you. Things that we know (or are pretty sure) are good:
CDI: You've tried 3 of them I think, including the original. They can't all be bad.
Regulator/Rectifier: You have tried a couple, with no change. Also, you tried with it unplugged with no change in bike's response.
Ignition Coil: You've tried 2 or 3 of them with no change. Again, they cannot all be bad. I would consider this an unlikely failure point.
Stator: You've replaced it with a brand new one, so both of it's coils should be fine.
Clutch Switch: The bike starts, so that shouldn't be a problem.
Battery: The bike starts fine, has good voltage, and the regulator is fine.
Plug Wires: I'm pretty sure you have replaced them.
When the problem occurs, do you notice any other electrical problems? such as flickering headlights? That could indicate corrosion or poor seating of the main fuse. I'd call this unlikely.
Check the ignition switch and its connector as well.
As far as the bike running, the current needs to get past the side stand safety switch and relay, neutral safety switch, and kill switch before it gets to the cdi. I expect that you bypassed the neutral safety switch and side stand switch when you initially prepped the bike? Maybe give them a quick check. I would also recommend checking the handlebar kill switch even though it is not heat related, it could be wet or dirty or corroded or something and be causing a shut down.
The CDI has 2 wires that end up going nowhere, 2 grounds, 1 power feed (depending on the safety switches), and 1 wire to the ignition coil. That should all be good.
It also has 2 wires coming from the source coil, which is wrapped on top of the charging coils on the stator. Since the stator is new, and the bike runs a bit, it is probably connected properly and fine.
The last two wires come from the ignitor/pickup coil. This would certainly be subjected to engine heat and have been known to fail. Have you replaced this? It's the little black box in the top of this picture.
So, in short from least likely to most likely: Main fuse, Safety switches, Ignition switch, Pickup Coil.
If the problem is indeed electrical (starting to have my doubts), and it's none of these, then it's gotta be a problem with the harness.
Sorry your stuck. Same problem on xt225 and it was pick-up coil on stator. Starts great when cold, stop when really hot and not start when hot.
+1 ADV Grifter
Thanks for all your input, guys. You all rock!
@Randomroad: thanks for those tips. I used to work for a cellphone manufacturer in Chicago and initially was part of the backend (mechanical) engineering team, root-causing failures on the proto-type line, so I understand what you did and I'm applying a lot of what I learned on that job here: going through a process of elimination, but as best as I can in the 'field'
@Adv Grifter: the new stator that I installed from Procycle came with a new pickup coil and wires leading to the CDI. The problem persists even after I disconnected the stator, so I don't think it's the pickup coil. Problem persists even after I disconnected the regulator, so that's not it, either. Yeah, bummer about using second-hand donated parts, but that's what I've got here.
I did not mod my ignition switch. I'm aware of that hidden resistor and haven't touched it. All the switches on my dash (and other farkles: horn, gps, 12v socket) sit on top of the bike's harness, they plug in via a relay directly to the battery, so I dont think a short in there somewhere would cause a power loss, right?
@C/W: yup, sounds like a short to me. Going to try and replace the wiring harness when I get a chance. It's pouring down tropical thunderstorm here and no good covering to work on the bike.
@BergDonk: I checked the ignition coil connector, looks good to me. I installed my spare coil yesterday and bike was running for a bit. When this problem first surfaced, my first thought was a fuel starvation issue. I opened up the carb and saw that the float needle wasn't that smooth in its jet, so I lightly sanded the jet, got better motion for the float needle, but problem persists. What else in the carb should I look at? I have a Mikuni TM38 flat slide. I had it rebuilt before I left Nairobi and replaced the slide, float pin, air screw and reseated the float needle.
@DRT: good tip to check the fuel filter, will do.
@Multisurface Rider: good tip on cracked plug wires. I have a spare set of ignition coils with plug wires and plug caps. Problem persists with either set.
@Feelers: thanks for the that comprehensive breakdown
CDI: I have 3 on hand: original 98, take-off from a 2001 in South Africa and a good 2006 one from Arizona (installed)
Regulator: I have 2: original 98, take-off from the 2001 (installed)
Ignition coil with plug wires and caps: I have 2 sets: original 98 and 2001 (installed)
Stator: I have 2: original 98 and new 250W from Procycle with new pickup coil (installed)
I don't notice other electrical problems when it dies. I turned off the headlight, to reduce straining the battery.
I didn't bypass the neutral safety switch but did bypass the sidestand and clutch safety switches. Will check them when the rain subsides. I'll also check the handlebar kill switch.
I did replace the pickup coil as it came with the replacement stator, but I don't know if it's failed since I installed it 250 miles ago. :huh
@heirhead: yeah, maybe the new pickup coil has failed already.
I'm not familiar with the TM38. What sort of filtration setup do you have? The fuel taps will likely have filters in them inside the tank. I remove them and just have a single in line servicable filter on the way to the carb. Do you still have the stock inline filter that sits in the intake pipe on the BST? I aslo routinely run on reserve so any accumulation of crud in the bottom of the tank gets flushed into the filter.
Does the float bowel have a drain valve/screw? If so, if you can get a piece of clear tube and attach it to the drain and leave the valve open and route the tube up so you can get a visible float level. Then when it stops, check the level in the tube. A manometer arrangement and it should be enough to tell you if itsa fuel issue.
My friend, I come back to the forum after a break, to read your post with fresh eyes, and my first impression is that you seem to be hung up on the concept of an electrical fault (understandably). Might I offer a different idea? I have a fair bit of history with four valve 250 and 500cc Honda singles and they had a common fault in that the cylinder head would crack between the spark plug hole and the exhaust valve seat. When they were cool this would not affect the starting of the bike, but as it heated up (especially under load and heat) the crack would expand, the cylinder head would lose compression and the bike would stop. The only foolproof way of checking for this condition is to remove the head, decoke and polish the combustion chamber and look for the crack. On clean aluminium the crack would be quite obvious. I don't know if DRs are susceptible to this, but it's a thought, and seems to fit your symptoms. I've just finished Ted Simon's 'Jupiters Travels'. Good luck with your trip.
Please bear in mind I know diddleysquat about anything mechanical. But is there any way that new-fangled battery could be causing something funky in the electrical system? Seems like I read some such about that early on in the development of these batteries.
Just curious, how many people did the full procycle upgrade on their DRs to 790cc.
I couldn't find much info on this thru search...
How much difference was there and in terms of weight/power ratio, any drawbacks?
I think you can rule out the resistor buried in the ignition switch.......if it is fried the switch duznt work........
Actually, they used to pretty much drop ship everything. Worked great for me because living in Dallas back then it was next day shipping from Parts Unlimited. I stopped buying from them back when they got bought out and jacked up their prices.
Do mean you stopped buying from SWMotoTire, or PartsUNL?
I just shopped tires (5 mins ago after seeing the name) at SWMT and their prices seemed pretty good. Anywhere better? I love saving munney.
There are some people here with the 780 and 790 kits... the posts I've seen indicate that it's a very worthwhile mod. I plan to do it hopefully before the end of next year. But my little KLX250S needs the 351 kit first. The DR already has pretty respectable power stock. The KLX? Not so much. :)
I've got a 2009 that I bought new 2.5 yrs ago, and it's got 39K miles on it with no problems so far. Good luck.
Still in progress. 3 more days ahead of us.