the DR650 thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by sleepywombat, May 1, 2006.

  1. acesandeights

    acesandeights Asperger

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    I have my numbers written down somewhere. I'll look for them tonight.
  2. NC Rick

    NC Rick Cogent Dynamics Inc

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    SO, we are talking COMPRESSION adjustment range. With the rebound adjuster on the Cogent Dynamics conversion you have a huge range of adjustment and works in the same exact way as the Ohlins shock.

    The Compression adjuster circuit in an ohlins shock is much better than what is in the OEM DR shock. (Cogent is an Ohlins dealer and repair center so we are familiar...)

    Again, stock OEM shock body with the Cogent Dynamics re-engineered internals. The compression adjuster is not modified but functions better because of the higher internal pressures being produced.

    Chart follows:
    [​IMG]

    The adjustment range is quite good at high damper speeds, close to 80% more force from min to max settings at maximum tested damper speed.
  3. GSF1200S

    GSF1200S Been here awhile

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    Your solution is very slick. Thanks for the write up!
  4. NC Rick

    NC Rick Cogent Dynamics Inc

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    What the image of the dyno run shows is force vs absolute velocity. The + forces on the top fold of the graph are compression forces. The lower and unchanging part of the graph is the rebound forces at our "standard" rebound setting of 14 clicks.
  5. Adv Grifter

    Adv Grifter on the road o'dreams

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    I agree with Rick. But the DR650 is not a dirt bike ... and because of the linkage design and weight ... it tends to sag more than a "real" dirt bike might ... especially the stock shock and spring on the DR650.

    My rear Sag (Ohlins shock) is just under 4.0 inches under normal, unloaded use. I'm 200 lbs. When fully loaded (add 60 lbs.) I hammer the preload rings around a few turns, then it's about 3.5" of sag to handle the heavier load. I don't know the spring rating on my Ohlins ... the numbers are mostly scrapped off. (it's 13 years old)

    3" to 4" of Race sag is what I've always gone with on Dirt bikes.
  6. Ride Now

    Ride Now Graybeard

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    I think you got the terminology a little bass-ackword here; no offense. Rather than me messing this up also, I blatantly stole this from a suspension website. :D :deal

    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="683"><tbody><tr align="left" valign="top"><td colspan="4">
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    </td> <td colspan="58" class="TextObject" width="652"> Its in most manuals, its all over the net and most of your riding buddies know how. You&#8217;ll probably need an extra hand doing this, make sure they know how to read a ruler. Its much easier using a metric one too, but maybe that&#8217;s just us. Have the rider sag (sometimes referred as &#8220;race&#8221; sag) measurement from your manual for reference.
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    </td> <td colspan="31" class="TextObject" width="396"> Consistent, repeatable measurements are essential. First, make yourself a reference mark, centered over the axle with a cross hair. You will eliminate the visual variations that occur when you use the center of a hollow axle.
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    </td> <td colspan="36" class="TextObject" width="391"> Your next reference mark will be a location that you can easily hook your tape measure to. For this machine the forward inner fender bolt works out great for more than one reason. The reference mark on the swing arm and this reference mark are very close to parallel with the shock angle. This allows for precise repeatable measurements.
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    </td> <td colspan="25" class="TextObject" width="386"> With the machine on a stand and the wheels off of the ground, you can measure the unloaded specification. This is the distance from your top reference point to the reference point you made on the swing-arm.
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    </td> <td colspan="36" class="TextObject" width="392"> Record your value, you might want to consider keeping this for future reference. This value is 600 mm, you might note that this is recorded 2 images up directly inside the rear fender. Its handy where & when you need it.
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    </td> <td colspan="31" class="TextObject" width="396"> Take the machine off the stand and take your loaded measurement. You will need your gear on and a helper to do this. You must be careful to keep your weight bias front to rear very consistent. It is preferable to weight the pegs standing in your attack position. If you are doing this measurement sitting on the saddle, the measurement will change depending on how far back or forward your butt sits, not very repeatable so avoid doing this.
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    </td> <td colspan="56" class="TextObject" width="650"> Now you have both measurements you need. The loaded value was 495 mm, subtract this from the unloaded value of 600 mm and you get a difference of 105 mm, this is your rider sag measurement. If 105 mm was the number you were after, lock things down. If you were after 100 mm, you would put the bike back on the stand and apply more pre-load to the spring to achieve your desired result. If you were after 110 mm, you would remove spring pre-load. We will be adding information on this subject to obtain certain handling characteristics and rider sag settings very soon.
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    </td> <td colspan="35" class="TextObject" width="391"> Once your rider sag is set and everything locked down, you can check your static sag. Note we said CHECK not adjust. Static sag is a checking value to reasonably verify proper spring rate, its not an adjustment.
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    </td> <td colspan="37" class="TextObject" width="393"> Static sag is measured by letting the machine sit on the ground with only the weight of the bike. Measure the distance between your reference points. Subtracting the static value, 575 mm from the unloaded value of 600 mm will equal the static sag of 25 mm.
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    </td> </tr> <tr align="left" valign="top"> <td colspan="64" height="8">To my limited knowledge "race" sag should be about 33% of total suspension travel for the rear; 25% for the front. So if at stock settings, the rear would be 10.2" X 33% = 3.36". Front would be 10.2" X 25% = 2.55". I took the 10.2" from the DR650 Wiki webpage. http://dr650.wikia.com/wiki/Specifications </td> </tr> <tr align="left" valign="top"> <td colspan="2" height="30">
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  7. SoPaRider

    SoPaRider Been here awhile

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    Could someone tell me what the O.E.M. fork spring rate is for a '09 DR650?

    Thanks,

    Jeff
  8. BergDonk

    BergDonk Long timer

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    Up to 30% race on the front is fine for off road use, I reckon 25% is a bit stiff, and more a road setting. 33% is always a good starting point for the rear.

    10% static is then a good number too. If you get race sag OK but too little static, then you have too much preload and too soft a spring, and visa versa. About 5% preload on the spring is a good starting point too, ie if you have a spring that's 250 mm long, 12 mm preload is a start. Too much either way, and its likely the wrong spring as you'll struggle to get both sags right.

    Without the right springs, everything else is up against it, they are first thing to get right. 100 mm or <> 4" race sag is borderline too much on a DR IMHO. With the DRs 260 mm travel, 25 mm static and 80-90 mm race are good number for me up back. With load variations these are always a compromise, and my preference is to go a bit stiffer for heavier loads than the other way, but set it up for how you ride it most of the time, then deal with it at other times.
  9. Foot dragger

    Foot dragger singletracker

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    Ive always read that sag is 1/3 of travel,some guys set for more sag in tight woods where there isnt much speed involved.
    I need some better pre-load rings for my DR shock,changing pre-load for loaded or unloaded quickly ruins the soft stock rings.
    I can always tell when the DR has too much sag as the kickstand is acting like its too long.+ it doesnt handle as well when bombing backroads on pavemento.

    The compression adjuster has a good effect on my race-tech gold valved shock,3 clicks slows any bottoming of the porcine wonder at speed in the rocks/gulleys of Death Valley.
  10. NC Rick

    NC Rick Cogent Dynamics Inc

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    Good post mr Berg'. Were talkin dual sport bike, I measure with ass planted on the seat. We use a stiffer spring in most cases, gives better load capabilities. We start at 12 mm preload on the spring giving a little more static sag than the doctrine prescribes. Too much spring preload and the ride quality, feel suffers for most. Use the guide as a starting point and try not to get all wrapped around the axle over the numbers. Try it on both sides and run your stuff where you like it!

    When I'm looking at setting up a ds bike, I'm going to use a higher wheel rate spring, more rebound ( particularly in the low damper speeds) and less aggressive compression curves. A pure woods or mx bike isn't going to be set up the same. A full on dirt bike feels pretty crappy at speed on the road. Generally, we want a bit more chassis control and a different feel for a dual sport bike.

    Wana make the dr650 into a real, full fledged off road race bike? It is going to be a crappy one! Want to ride a full on off road bike to the places we ride our dr 650s? You'll likely be the guy riding the grass strip next to the road:D seen a lot of those guys at sanctioned dual sport events.:evil
  11. RobTheRigger

    RobTheRigger Thread Killer

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    I don't have a DR (yet:evil) to experiment on, or look at, so I have a question...

    Do the U.S. spec DRs have frame provisions for the RH sidestand, like the Oz farm bike has? (can't think of what it's called. has mudflaps, dual sidestands, rack over the headlight)

    If it does, would mounting an adjustable sidestand on the RH side be a viable alternative to a centerstand or trail jack?

    Am I :loco?

    edit: I guess you'd probably have to put an adjustable one on each side?
  12. DR650SEDDY

    DR650SEDDY ride2discover

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    I hope this would help. How to set your Race Set:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gayi1ZMRNog
  13. MrBob

    MrBob Certified Geezer

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    So, it cost you just under 70.00 total?
  14. scottbed

    scottbed Been here awhile

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    I'm replacing the chain tensioner gasket and I may have screwed up. I did not put the bike at TDC before removing the tensioner. I just read you should put the tensioner back in with the bike at TDC so you don't stretch the chain or damage the cams. I also read not to rotate the crank with the tensioner off because you could jump a tooth. Niether of these are mentioned in the manual (at least I didn't see it).

    So I'm in a quandary....what should I do now? :huh Well, besides dancing.... :rilla
  15. RobTheRigger

    RobTheRigger Thread Killer

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    Start drinking. Heavily.
  16. eakins

    eakins Butler Maps

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    none taken. i just might have worded it funny, but we are saying the same thing.
    that is a solid guide.

    race/rider sag is just how much the suspension drops from fully extended to when you sit on your bike (actually standing on the pegs centered to be exact)...using measurement points on the bike. this is needed as the suspension needs to have room to expand back out in addition to compress down.

    static sag is how much your bike drops down by its own weight.

    the reason i'm asking others about sag #s is there are several "rules of thumb" that exist out there for sag depending on who you ask and what terrain you are on. i've even gotten a range just google searching for DR threads out there.

    just wanted to hear what others are using.

    as for getting good test results i own this stand.
    http://www.harborfreight.com/motorcycle-stand-wheel-chock-97841.html
    i opposite the opposite end i'm measuring in place and use use light pull on straps to stabilize the bike perfectly upright and secure.
    i then pick marks on the bike and lift the end i'm testing up in the air with a car jack under the skid plate.
    then i measure the extended length #. next i remove the jack and sit on the bike and have my wife measure those same marks.
    i take the larger # and subtract the smaller # and get race sag.

    anyway,
    i'm setting my rear race sag to 95mm (3.5"), per Rick, and seeing how she rides in the back tomorrow.

    These are the #s i have for travel (oem high/regular position assumed)
    Front suspension – 10.2” travel
    Rear suspension – 10.2” travel

    using these #s and Rick's he likes 34% (3.5") of travel for rear dirt race sag, so he goes slightly plusher.
    i'll work 25% upfront or 2.5"/65mm




  17. procycle

    procycle Long timer

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    For all practical purposes the stock springs are .38 kg/mm. They are progressive so they transition up to about .42 kg/mm but the transition doesn't happen until the last inch or two of travel.
  18. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    How is the Goop supposed to adhere if the gasket has a film of oil or grease on the other side? I generally just grease the paper gasket on both sides and haven't had one fail yet, as long as you don't count the old British bikes I had over the years. When the oil stopped dripping out of those, you knew you'd run out. :lol3
  19. thump!

    thump! Adventurer

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    Let's be optimistic and assume you haven't jumped time. Remove the bolt on the end of the tensioner and turn the small screw inside clockwise and you'll see how it retracts the tensioner. The dealer has a little tool that holds it in the retracted position until the tensioner is bolted in place. Then they release it and it extends to put the proper tension on the cam chain.

    I've installed them without the special tool by putting it in place and starting the bolts but don't tighten them. Then while holding the tensioner in the retracted positon with a small screwdriver tighten down the screws. When it bottoms out, release the tensioner and replace the bolt in the end. It easier if someone else helps.
  20. Emmbeedee

    Emmbeedee Procrastinators

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    I did the CCT on two bikes recently. On the first bike I took great pains to get the TDC timing mark on the flywheel in the right place. Took quite a while longer than necessary, so the second one I did, I followed Procycle's directions which made no mention of TDC, and the results were exactly the same. Both bikes are running just fine now.

    So don't worry about it, unless you've already turned the engine, in which case, resume worrying. :lol3