The GF failed the MSF basic course

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Carlo Muro, Mar 23, 2013.

  1. concours

    concours WFO for 44 years

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    Did SHE ASK TO LEARN to ride here own bike? The rule I live by is, I'll support the learning if they catch the bug and ask... I'd feel HORRIBLE if a family member did it because they thought I WANTED IT. Just curious:1drink
    #21
  2. jgbnm

    jgbnm Been here awhile

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    Take the class with her. Be there for support and to cheer her on, but not to be pushy and tell her what she needs to be doing or what she shouldn't do.

    Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2
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  3. Matt 82

    Matt 82 Been here awhile

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    Well we certainly won't know if you pushed too hard as we aren't aware of how hard you pushed. If it was something that she didn't want to do and you pressured into it, then yes you're an ass. What I'm guessing is though is that she seemed keen but lacked confidence(?). It's often hard to judge the difference between a lack of belief in yourself that can be overcome with encouragement and a genuine concern that one hasn't had enough training to deal with what's ahead.

    That said, my gut instinct tends to be, "if you need to ask, the answer is probably yes". I'm not judging you of course, as I'm not in possession of the facts.


    Has she expressed an intention to do it again? If she hasn't, I wouldn't bring it up. If it's something she really wants to do, she'll likely realise it the next time the two of you are out on your bike and hopefully mention it then. Even if she has said she'll attempt it again, let her do it at her own pace.

    Is it possible to get her on a bike away from a group of learners? The only female in a group isn't a particularly comfortable situation to be in for a lot of women. If a few of them have experience it's even worse as you feel you're holding people up (or the instructor moves on before you're ready).

    I learned a lot (relatively) by going round in circles in a carpark on my dad's bike before sitting my CBT (compulsory basic training). Is it possible to use someone's bike in a secluded area or even for her to get one-to-one training by the instructor?
    #23
  4. xcountry41

    xcountry41 Adventurer

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    In my experience unless you have followed the prescribed formula the man will find any excuse to fail a first timer no matter how competent the rider. in a lot of cases,but not all it's about knocking you down a peg. In my case I failed my first test despite the objective proof of a 35 year accident free cage record,excellent bike handling skills from 10 years of competitive motocross followed by 20 years as a mountain bike fanatic. I did not take the safety council course and apparently that's a gaurenteed failure. I failed for not cranking my 50 yr old neck a complete 90 deg. At uncontrolled intersections to prove I was indeed scanning for danger and for going slower than the posted limit in a residential area where the speed limit was not clearly posted so I deferred to a cautious playground zone speed.they did not accept any deviations no matter how understandable or justified. Passed it easily once I understood their game.
    #24
  5. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    What BRC course takes you out on the road for your test? You are talking about two totally different things.
    #25
  6. e.t.

    e.t. Certified User

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    My wife took a rider class -same thing. Was rushed through the whole thing.

    The bottom line is, I told her after the first day -you are going to figure out if this is for you or not...

    To the OP - if she came home pissed and determined -she wants to ride

    If she didn't -riding is not a priority.

    In either case - get a small D/S and let her go play some at her own pace. You can't go wrong and you can resell easily if it winds up sitting.

    my .02
    #26
  7. AviatorTroy

    AviatorTroy Long timer

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    I'm enjoying this thread. I came home from a long business trip and wife shocked me by showing me her temp card which she event out and got while I was gone, complete surprise to me. Cool. So we went slowly, and every Saturday for a couple weeks I had her riding my old CB550 around the local school lot, and I think she took it around the block nice or twice.

    I was pretty adamant that she take the course and learn from a real instructor, as is in aviation, it is always a terrible idea to take lessons from a family member, needs to be someone impartial. About this time my brother says he will take the class with her as he was just getting back into riding after a several year hiatus.

    What a disaster. My wife is a perfectionist and when she took the class, the first day she came home and said she was having a real hard time with the manuverability and all that because she hates the cruiser riding position and all they had left were Rebel 250s. Asked my brother how she really was doing and he said he thought she was one of the top students but she was just being really hard on herself. I suggested she try to find out if they had any other bikes, and they did provide her with an XT250, which was of course to too tall. She dropped it about halfway through the second day, got pissed off, walked straight over to the parking lot, and left to go drink a couple beers. That's my girl!

    Of course a few weeks later we found out she was pregnant and it "happened" a day or two before the class, so the moral of the story is don't ever, ever allow your SO to take the course while massive doses of hormones are coursing through their veins!
    #27
  8. AzItLies

    AzItLies Been here awhile

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    Let's clear some stuff up first everyone, this is really important:

    1) This "12 hour day" should never have happened. The MSF BRC is 10 hours of range time over 2 days. The organization that did this has overstepped their bounds. The class should have been rescheduled.

    From the MSF point of view, it basically comes down to exhaustion and fatigue, new riders are learning an awful lot of things that others take for granted. It's mentally draining.

    So this is not the fault of the MSF. It's the fault of the individual Sponsor, it was their decision. If they had followed the MSF rules, it would not have happened.

    2) If you want to scare this Sponsor to death, tell them you are going to call the MSF and tell them what they did. They could potentially have their license pulled. AKA: Out Of Business.

    3) The BRC is designed so that "most" people can pass the class. But there are those that should take the "Introduction to Motorcycling" class first. The Intro classes are smaller and a great deal of time is spent on just the friction zone. It's a big help to those that are "uncertain" and "anxious".

    But here's the rub: We really can't tell people they have to take the Intro class first, we don't know for sure ahead of time if someone is going to pass the BRC or not, no one knows that.

    So if the individual doesn't want to pay the xtra for the Intro, even though they are very anxious... we still try to get them through the BRC... and most of the time we do.

    Good Luck to your GF Carlo, I hope she gets this straightened out with the Sponsor. It's sad to hear of this happening, because sometimes it can wrongly convince someone they should quit.

    It's not fun for any of us to have an experience like that and we end up down on ourselves and feeling badly.

    Cheers
    #28
  9. AviatorTroy

    AviatorTroy Long timer

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    #29
  10. Dragonflylily

    Dragonflylily Been here awhile

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    I took the class by myself but it seemed like the rest of the group had buddies, husband/boyfriend and a woman my age with her father.

    It was tough but with good reason. Your life is dependent on the skills you develop during the class. At one point I had a difficult time completing a skills test on the bike, the very loud instructor pulled me aside & told me I had what it takes but I had to "get my head" together. I was near tears but I wanted to pass that class like my life depended on it. Having the instructor notice my frustration level & give me positive reinforcement got me through the rest of the day.

    The next day three people did not return, the father & daughter team & another person. Not everyone passed, it's difficult. I can't imagine taking the class because someone else wanted me to. My husband has a license but doesn't ride, he did not want me on a bike but he was gone & I had signed up. It was tough but worth it. It has saved my life more than once.
    #30
  11. stoke

    stoke ocean minded

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    Got sent home actually halfway through the second day. Couldn't figure out the clutch and wrap his mind around the multiple channels of information you have to process while piloting a motorcycle.

    He's taking it again next week for free (CA). Like a previous poster said, he came back angry and determined. A good sign for internal motivation.
    #31
  12. xcountry41

    xcountry41 Adventurer

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    Not sure what BRC even is but I'm referring to Not taking the safety council course but writing (challenging)the exam and doing the road test to get my motorcycle endorsement on my drivers license. People that take safety council course get good training but also are made aware of what road test examiners will be looking for.we do our road test out on the roads. Makes sense to me.
    #32
  13. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    I took the DMV tests and got my license several years before I ever took a BRC. The Man didn't give me a hard time at all. I don't think I even got hit for any points. The BRC coaches DID give me a hard time though. They also realized within the first 5 minutes of class that I had both a thick skin AND a sense of humor.

    Damn the Man, and come visit freedom-lovin' 'Merika! Visit states that allow carried handguns, riding without helmets, driving without seatbelts, cars without DRLs, and women without bras. Git you a taste of freedom! :1drink

    :lol3
    #33
  14. bwalsh

    bwalsh Long timer

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    BRC(Basic Rider Course), probably similar to your safety council course. In Virginia you can also not take the BRC and just do the riding test at a DMV(Dept. of Motor Vehicles) office.
    #34
  15. Kommando

    Kommando Long timer

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    This depends on which state you're in. FL requires a BRC now.
    #35
  16. Bill 310

    Bill 310 Poser Emeritus

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    I failed, my wife failed. No biggie. We took the courses again and that set the base for a lifetime of continuos rider education and two wheeled adventure.

    Three of us with a combined total mileage of over a million miles were commenting over coffee awhile ago that our failing parts of the test was a great way to start riding and has likely made us better and more studious riders.

    Suggest your GF read this thread, and let her see that it is ok to fail the test.
    #36
  17. AzItLies

    AzItLies Been here awhile

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    + a million, or 2 or 3!

    Hear Hear!
    #37
  18. SR1

    SR1 Back in S. Korea

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    Agreed 100%. Any pushing is too much pushing. This is something someone either does for themselves, or not at all. Said another way, I would NEVER want the blood of another individual on my hands if I "pushed" them into riding and something went wrong.
    #38
  19. bracky72

    bracky72 Long timer

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    My wife had a similar experience. She was the only woman. And every one of the guys rode in on their own bikes and were experienced riders. She got sent home before they even got to the duck walk drill because she couldn't keep up.
    #39
  20. AzItLies

    AzItLies Been here awhile

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    Not to be contentious bracky, but to clarify:

    If the way you describe this did actually happen, then again, the Sponsor she took the course from did this completely wrong, against MSF rules.

    Instructors are told to let the students know that the exercises "Are not a competition" and "Not to try to keep up with more skilled riders".

    The duration of the exercises are not suppose to be dictated by a majority of the students, there are specific times ea one is run. They can be ended early if ALL the students show proficiency for that Exercise.

    The only time someone should be counseled out is when they become a danger to themselves or others, NOT because they can't keep up with more skilled riders.

    Something is very wrong there.

    Cheers
    #40