The Grand Rally

Discussion in 'Racing' started by HogWild, Jun 8, 2011.

  1. Robb Mc

    Robb Mc what?

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,739
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    We don't allow Coloradans or whatever you people call yourself.
    #21
  2. Hayduke

    Hayduke ///SAFETY THIRD/// Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Oddometer:
    45,114
    Location:
    Salida, coloRADo
    ColorRADicals
    #22
  3. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Oddometer:
    3,111
    Location:
    SoCal USA
    Here's that one on VIDEO.

    Maybe I'll put a little warning in the roadbook at that point so we don't have this:
    [​IMG]
    #23
  4. troy safari carpente

    troy safari carpente Team f5oolery

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Oddometer:
    25,335
    Location:
    "Swednavia" - f5ederation of scandwegia
    Listening... intently... :ear:nod
    #24
  5. Deadly99

    Deadly99 Fast and Far

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Oddometer:
    11,347
    Location:
    Merrickville, Canada
    A group of us from Canada have penciled this in for 2013 :deal


    A few questions.....

    What time of year is best for comfortable temperatures?

    Could you zip together a map with strategic locations for the support truck to meet up as well as recommended camp locations that the support truck can get to??

    I do like the idea of go arounds for the super tech stuff as well as bail out routes in case someone gets hurt or has a mechanical :thumb


    Thanks for all the hard work, cya soon :freaky
    #25
  6. Deco

    Deco Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2007
    Oddometer:
    248
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    WOW!! Great job. Keepnthe pix and maps coming.:clap:clap:clap
    #26
  7. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Oddometer:
    3,111
    Location:
    SoCal USA
    Summer is bad due to the heat. Winter doesn't really work because certain parts will be under snow or mud. So, the only options are the gaps between. But some of the more desert stages where snow and mud are not generally issues could be run into the winter months. So depending on the stage, different time periods could apply.

    If you think you can do the WHOLE thing in one trip, you might as well go do Dakar instead, because it's about the same difficulty, and in Dakar they at least have helicopters and sweep trucks to quickly pick up your body or your bike.

    Each roadbook (stage) starts and ends at a strategic "bivouac" location. On many of the stages it would be difficult or impossible to stage anyplace in between. Nearly all the bivouac locations are easily accessible by highway or good dirt road, and are either in town at a motel, or are at campground type locations. The stages with remote bivouacs could be skipped depending on the support available. The locations of the bivouacs will be provided with the roadbooks.

    Don’t expect detailed course maps or GPS tracks to be available. As rallies go, the course should not be known except as specified in the roadbooks, which won’t be available until the last possible minute. Generally the roadbooks for one stage are handed out after the previous stage is completed.

    Generally each long stage starts near a gas station, passes through a gas station mid-day, and ends near a gas station. Most stages have a couple of crossings of paved roads or highways along the way. For the most part, those pavement crossings will be the bailout points. Given that I try to put lots of hard stuff in as much as possible, an amateur rider skipping all the hard stuff will not get much dirt at all. The bailouts are more for mechanical issues and injuries. In the future I’d like to go through it stage by stage and plan dirt easy way bypasses for the most difficult spots, but that won’t come for a while. In the beginning, those with lesser riding skills should not attempt The Grand Rally, or at least not a lot of it.

    One of the main motivators for me putting this route together is to provide challenging rally training roadbooks for Jonah Street, Quinn Cody, and any other top Dakar competitor. To be challenging for those guys, it has to be pretty tough. The Grand Rally is an extremely challenging ride, for hardcore rally racers.

    For those looking for a less difficult super cool dual sport adventure ride around the Grand Canyon, I suggest you check out Crawdaddy and Strega’s ride instead. They picked more manageable roads and provided their GPS track file.
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514339
    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514330
    http://www.crawdadoffroadevents.com
    #27
  8. BC61

    BC61 Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,685
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Scott, not that I consider myself a top contender but will the routes be available by the end of summer for training rides? Will you be out riding then? My entry is in, just waiting for their response. Thanks again for the great routes in April, had a blast riding with you all.

    Bill
    #28
  9. BC61

    BC61 Long timer

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,685
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    Rob is this anywhere near Coral Pinks Sand Dunes? I friend who is to sand rails just mentioned to me this has the softest sand in the states.
    #29
  10. rufus

    rufus We're burning daylight...

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,557
    Location:
    Coweta Oklahoma



    There is a whole shitload of us out here who are past our "training" stage in life. BUT still young enough to want a good long tough ride every once in a while. We don't want to have to study a road book. We like detailed maps and GPS tracks. We have spare money to pay for these things. Quality is more important than price. We have spent tons of money on cruises and vacations to Hawaii, Disneyland etc. A few hundred for good maps and GPS tracks makes for a cheap vacation (comparatively).

    Something to think about.

    I am full up for this year and probably next year. But 2013 I will be looking for something new and different.
    #30
  11. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Oddometer:
    3,111
    Location:
    SoCal USA
    Just keep in touch with Charlie, and we'll see what might be ready by then.

    No that's not Coral Pink. I originally had Coral Pink included in one stage, but that stage ended up being too many miles, so that distant point got dropped.

    Here are a couple more dunes shots from prerun 3.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I hear you. But this is not about money. It's a huge looser in that respect, even if it were done the way you described. My focus is 100% on a rally roadbook navigated ride. I know that discourages a LOT of people. But my goal right now is not to serve the largest crowd, it's to serve the tiny rally crowd. Once it has served that purpose for a while, then I'll post the GPS tracks and let everyone have at it.

    Is the roadbook (not roll chart) really THAT revolting? If you're looking for a challenging ride, navigation by roadbook beats the hell out of a green line on a GPS screen. You'll get yourself lost several times a day with the roadbook, and have to use your wits to get back on track. It's a whole added level of tough on top of the riding, making for a more adventurous ride, and greater satisfaction and feeling of accomplishment when you finish each day.
    #31
  12. LC4Dakar

    LC4Dakar Been here awhile

    Joined:
    May 10, 2006
    Oddometer:
    760
    Location:
    SF Bay Area and Las Cruces, NM
    OOH! OOH! YES! YES!
    2012 is good! (no time this year)

    IN!
    #32
  13. rufus

    rufus We're burning daylight...

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,557
    Location:
    Coweta Oklahoma


    I can dig it. .........Lots of us will be eagerly waiting.
    #33
  14. rufus

    rufus We're burning daylight...

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,557
    Location:
    Coweta Oklahoma


    NO..It's all about TIME. Navigation eats up time. I have used roll charts (never a road book) and GPS. GPS is faster and lets you focus on the RIDE. Most of us have to take time away from work and family to do these kind of rides. Less time spent on navigation means more time riding.

    I/we used GPS on the western TAT. If you are looking at the scenery and blow a corner it is no big deal with a GPS. No resetting an odo or rolling back paper, or trying to figure out where you are, just look for the line and go to it.
    I understand people looking for a challenge, lots of people like timekeeper enduros, but lots more don't.
    The 2 best things I had on the TAT were a 6.6 gallon acerbis tank and my 276c. Fill up in the morning and not worry about gas all day. Turn on the GPS and just go.


    I think that it is fantastic that guys like you put out the time and effort to do what you are doing. Most of us don't have the time to do it. We really really appreciate it. And lots of us will be glad when what you are doing trickles down to us.


    Thanks in advance and
    HAPPY TRAILS!!!
    #34
  15. Hayduke

    Hayduke ///SAFETY THIRD/// Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Oddometer:
    45,114
    Location:
    Salida, coloRADo
    I've ridden some of HogWild's roadbook routes, and he does an extremely good job of making it a realistic Rally simulation, meaning it's more than a dualsport ride. It's more of a puzzle, or a game. GPS tracks wouldn't be the same at all.

    I really appreciate the work the Scott does- it helps to train pretty much all American rally riders and hopefuls.

    He pointed out Crawdads' DS route if that's what you are looking for; rally navigation is an entirely different thing.
    #35
  16. HogWild

    HogWild Scott Whitney

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Oddometer:
    3,111
    Location:
    SoCal USA
    There are multiple ways to look at that.

    If the roadbook says 6.3 miles to the next navigation point, then you don't have to look down again for a while. You just stay on the same road or trail you're on, ignoring all offshoots. In that same section, with a GPS track you will need to keep looking down after each intersection to see if you've missed a turn. So, depending on the situation, roadbook navigation can actually take less time. But it definately takes more thinking.

    My routes are unlike most other rides. I take offshoot roads and trails a lot more often than others. And they are very often nearly invisible as you ride by. In fact, if it's a well hidden little used trail, then you can almost be assured that my route will take it! So you have to really be on your toes no matter how you navigate my routes. If your goal is to put in as many miles as possible, my stuff is not for you. On the other had, if your goal is to have an intense exprience, then that's what you'll get. The Grand Rally is about more mental and physical challenges per mile, not more miles per day.

    For many, the navigation challenge is a major part of the experience. It's sort of like people who don't do off-roading asking why you don't just take the highway to get to your destination. Some see it as a hassle, others see it as the main attraction.

    Don't leak those secrets. They aren't supposed to figure that out until they are half way in, and have to find their way out! :wink:
    #36
  17. DaveRMS

    DaveRMS Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Oddometer:
    1,362
    Location:
    San Rafael, CA
    Agree 100%. It's all about personal preference, I guess. I'm solidly planted in the "hate to follow GPS--too hard/slow" camp. Scott, you nailed the key for me, which is that a roadbook tells you "chill, look around, next turn isn't for 1.2 miles".

    Some like GPS, some like roadbooks. Celebrate diversity! (and keep up the great work for the roadbook crew)

    Dave
    #37
  18. Hayduke

    Hayduke ///SAFETY THIRD/// Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2004
    Oddometer:
    45,114
    Location:
    Salida, coloRADo
    Evil, evil man. :lol3
    #38
  19. tehdutchie

    tehdutchie Long timer

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2009
    Oddometer:
    2,146
    Location:
    Amsterdam or on Twitter @antal

    +1 !!
    #39
  20. Robb Mc

    Robb Mc what?

    Joined:
    May 6, 2004
    Oddometer:
    1,739
    Location:
    San Francisco, CA
    I can assure you, having done most of Hogwild's routes.... If you can finish the course every day, which is not so easy (as most days in the Grand Rally are over 300 miles), you won't be thinking that you didn't get enough riding in.
    #40