The issues of fuel injectors and "adventure" bikes

Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Mambo Dave, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. slartidbartfast

    slartidbartfast Love those blue pipes

    Dec 23, 2003
    Southern Louisiana or Southern England or ...
    OTOH, if you tip over your carb'd bike and flood it, or foul the plug on a high altitude pass, or it's just a cold morning and it won't start, your bike may not technically be broken, but you're just as badly stuck. ...and these types of failures are far more common than FI failure.

    How about droppping a jet and losing it in the sand, breaking something while futzing about with your carb, or filling the sump with fuel overnight and tearing up the cam bearings - all are arguably more likely than an FI failure IMO, and in all cases you are absolutely f***d. How about running out of fuel in the middle of nowhere because your carb'd bike only gets 35 mpg, whereas a FI bike would still have 30 or 40 miles-worth of fuel left?

    Honestly - a disabling crash or irrepairable flat are both SO much more likely than any of the above scenarios. If you are worrying about whether FI or carbs are more likely to leave you stranded, you are worrying about the wrong things.
  2. NJ-Brett

    NJ-Brett Brett

    Sep 8, 2010
    Southern New Jersey
    German stuff does not count, they make the worst electronics stuff on the planet.

  3. Ceri JC

    Ceri JC UK GSer

    Sep 14, 2009
    All over, usually Wales or England

    Unlike some other, I do believe failure rate should be a factor in this debate too.

    Look at it this way; let's pretend carbs fail 1% of the time and 10% of the times that they fail, they are not fixable at the side of the road (assuming the rider has the right tools/knowledge to do so). Let's also, for the sake of this example, pretend that EFI fails 0.33% of the time and that 20% of the time it fails, it is not fixable at the side of the road. That means that 0.1% of the time, carbs will break and leave you stranded, whereas 0.066% of the time, EFI will break and leave you stranded.

    Yes, I picked those figures out of the air, simply to illustrate the point. :deal

    Most people seem to be in agreement that EFI, generally speaking, breaks less often, but that when it does, it is less likely to be fixable at the side of the road. What we don't have, however, is figures on fail rates per hour's use and stats on what percentage of 'repairs at the side of the road' are successful, both of which are necessary to plug into the example above to see which is actually more likely to leave you stranded.

    On top of that, you also want to factor in to your decision how much of a ball ache repairing something at the side of the road is (in terms of tools, spares, etc, you have to carry and how difficult/unpleasent/time consuming it is to fix). If carbs turn out to actually only leave you stranded 0.00001% of the time, compared to 0.000012% of the time with EFI, but to get these figures you need to carry a lot of tools and spares, most people would prefer to leave those tools at home and take the 0.000002% in increased likelihood of being stranded.
  4. hugemoth

    hugemoth Long timer

    Sep 6, 2007
    In the TARDIS
    Let's face it, most people who ride "adventure bikes" are posers just like the people who drive big winch equipped 4WD rigs and never leave the pavement. EFI is the best choice for them because it has a lot of advantages and the bike is never going to be ridden to remote areas. Also, like previously pointed out, most riders nowadays wouldn't know a float needle from a sewing needle and wouldn't be able to fix even a simple carb problem or EFI problem.
  5. Paebr332

    Paebr332 Good news everyone!

    Apr 23, 2012
    Shippensburg, PA
    I have seen failure rate data for fuel system manufacturers, and so has my brother. Both of us had the same experience: Carb system failure rates are orders of magnitudes higher than EFI system failure rates. The differences are so profound that ALL car and truck manufacturers stopped using carbs years ago, and bike manufacturers are nearly there on all but their most budget products.

    Manufacturers have to pay for warranty repairs. They pay lots less for EFI repairs overall because the failure rates are so miniscule. They are in business to make money and the more expensive EFI systems costs them less overall because they break so rarely. They also make more useable power and do better on fuel economy and emissions. There is simply NOTHING that a carb does better than a modern EFI system except cost less to build.

    All my bikes have been carbed and the #1 annoyance on each of them was... carb issues. My next bike will have EFI, just like all my cars and trucks for over two decades.
  6. der_saeufer

    der_saeufer ?איפה בירה

    Apr 30, 2011
    Heh... sometimes they do. But IIRC, neither of those parts was actually made in Germany, so I blame the French.

    What I for some reason forgot to mention there is that carb issues have caused me way more headache despite having put somewhere around 20x as many miles on fuel-injected vehicles.
  7. JimVonBaden

    JimVonBaden "Cool" Aid!

    Feb 11, 2005
    Alexandria, VA
    Well, at least your screen name is accurate!:lol3

    Jim :brow
  8. corndog67

    corndog67 Banned

    Jan 24, 2006
    Santa Maria, CA
    He's talking about the size of his dick, JimVB.

    But he is absolutely right about the posers . just look at the number of fully "Farkled " ( what a gay term) , low mileage ADV bikes for sale, all the BS on them , but they've only put it 3000 miles in 5 years on it. Image, I guess.
  9. Katoom72

    Katoom72 Been here awhile

    Jun 3, 2012
    29 and i prefer the CV carbs of my 950 over the EFI of my sold 990. Injection works better, but not in traffic with steady speeds. It's a PITA then.
  10. Warin

    Warin Retired

    Aug 30, 2012
    A correctly set up system will work in traffic with steady speeds.

    Your description reminds me of this ...

    "[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The performance of the WM16M[/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]We've all heard of or experienced the glitches from this unit, the misses while cruising at constant speed, the failure to idle. Both inexplicable and quite frustrating. Quite simply it shouldn't happen and its hard to imagine that Moto Guzzi/Weber Marelli have not been able to address these issues with a fix. It shouldn't be that hard to fix surely.

    One other area I feel is not right is the barometric compensation. My bike seemed to have a variation in performance from day to day. Either they under compensate or over compensate for air pressure and temperature."[/FONT]

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]See
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