The KaTaMaki 650 ADV project (KTM LC4 gets a twin engine swap)

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by LukasM, Apr 22, 2009.

  1. Roadracer_Al

    Roadracer_Al louder, louder, louder!

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    Lukas - congrats on the BMW purchase. I rode the street version (RT?) for a day, and found it a pleasant-enough bike, and agree with your assessment.

    It seems that you can make the stock throttle bodies work by fabricating new top frame rails that are wider and maintain the stock tank mounting location, just further apart.

    Have you tried flipping the stock intake boots over to make the TBs more horizontal? They may fit under the rails when the motor is lowered to accommodate the sprocket location.
  2. kyns

    kyns Long timer

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    I think, you should really build a jig, for the engine and frame. ( just a simple one, to hold them in right angle and place ) Only then you will see how everything lines up.

    For how it looks, the engine, even on an er 6 is more upright. ( your's is just sitting on the pan!!!!!!!!! ) :csm

    And have you checked if the frame is in the right angle either? Line the steering head tube in the same angle as it is in the LC4, for starters...

    Connect the swing arm and wheel temporarily, to the frame to measure the chain line.

    The throttle bodies need more space. So you basically just need to cut 20cm piece of, from the upper frame rails. If you had the frame on a JIG you could cut it... Then get some new tubes bent. Fit and tag them in place yourself. Then take the frame to a machine shop, for a proper welding. Machine shop costs can be funded by selling the BMW!:wink:


    Aaand i have a stupid idea for the fuel tank problem: You said, you have 26 litre rear tanks??? WOW! That Kawi engine uses about 7 litres for 100 kilometers, so with just the rear tanks you could get allmost 400 kilometers. Then you can just cut the front tanks open and use them as fairings. That way you can get them in right place even with the twin.

    So yeah, get to work!



    :lol3
  3. pilot

    pilot Slacker Moderator Super Moderator

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  4. dakdakdave

    dakdakdave an older,wiser noob!

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    IMO I think you will eventually cut off the headstock(only for the frame number) and then be forced to scratch build a one off frame to suit.Not a job for the fainthearted without jigs and major,major body work after that.good luck and best wishes!
  5. SamM

    SamM Jeep Overlander

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    Sorry to dig this one back up Lukas and I know that you have moved on to the BMW, but I can't stop thinking about this project! :evil

    Honestly, I think by cutting the frame (at the red marks) and then bending new tubing for the frame (teal marks), you could easily rotate that engine for better clearance for the efi. It looks like it would still have plenty of room for front wheel travel. Square tubing may be a better choice for frame material. KTM already used square tubing in it. After my other bike projects are done, I may have to get into another one. :rolleyes My wife is going to kill me!

    I also think the Versys engine would fit into my '08 KLR650 frame. And I still have a KTM 950 frame sitting in my shop. That KTM trellis frame would probably be the best frame to do this with. It would need to be shortened though.

    Any updated pictures of your Beemer project.

    Thanks! :thumb

    SamM

    [​IMG]
  6. Captain Yesterday

    Captain Yesterday Been here awhile

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    Just found this thread.

    Also, had the same idea started to try and fit a ninja 650 engine in a xr650l frame a couple of months ago decided it wasn't going to work out the way I wanted it to. So I'm going to build a custom frame for the motor. Anyway here are some pictures of it. I cant believe this engine weights only 125lbs where a xr650l engine is 110lbs. Good luck on your project
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  7. DRjoe

    DRjoe Long timer

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    that's bloody close
  8. mx43

    mx43 n00b

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    :huh
  9. luckett

    luckett Been here awhile

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    Has anyone out there tried a ninja/ex500 engine in a dirt bike chassis? It looks to be shorter height than the versys/ninja 650 engine and shorter front to rear than the GS500 engine.
  10. jake28

    jake28 Riding to the horizon.

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    http://www.rallytwin.com/
  11. luckett

    luckett Been here awhile

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    That's a completely custom frame designed around the ex500 engine. I was wondering more if anyone had swapped the 500 engine into one of the more common thumpers.
  12. DougZ73

    DougZ73 Fading off.........

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    very cool project. :clap
  13. dirt rider X

    dirt rider X tropical traveller

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    Lukas I share your and everyone elses disappointment that it wouldn't work.
    I understand your preference for a multicylinder but did you consider the 650 Rotax engine?
    Its pretty civilised vibration wise, not a bad performer and has a good rep as far as reliability.
  14. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Hey guys,

    I am still following this thread closely, just not saying much because I haven't done any more work on the project. :D

    I have already thought about the Rotax 650, in fact I stumbled on my new Beemer by accident when I was looking for a crashed X-series. I came to the conclusion that while definitely a sweet bike with lots of potential, in the end it would still be a 5 speed single with moderate power output, and I could get a similar result with a lot less work by modifying an X-Challenge.

    If somebody brought out a big single with a wide ratio 6-speed like the TE610, similar power to the new LC4 690 and made it reliable like the Rotax, I'll be the first in the line of adventurers ready to buy it. Anybody listening? :deal

    Until then I'll keep dreaming about the home brew 650 twin. I still plan to give it a shot with the Versys engine eventually, but since I have more specialized bikes that fit my current needs better it's not really a priority at the moment.

    Keep the good ideas coming though, maybe somebody else will get inspired. :beer

    Lukas
  15. Zapp22

    Zapp22 ZAPP - Tejas

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    ultralite with a ninja 250?

  16. tonymorr

    tonymorr Malta,NY(Saratoga Spring)

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    I have been thinking lately about an Xcountry. The country version because of the comfy(er) seat. I hear the X's get crazy good fuel mileage.
  17. jdrocks

    jdrocks Gravel Runner

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    adding some changes to an xchallenge currently. lucas, i see you supplied the KTM front end for your buddy's mod on the XC. i do have an ohlins shock mounted to get rid of the air shock, but i don't think i'm fast enough anymore to outrun the stock XC front. prepping for a big run west.

    the BMW guys might as well have made the seat out of concrete on the XC.
  18. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Funny that you two are now looking into the X-bikes - you were the pioneers in modding the Kawa twins!

    Yeah, fuel mileage for the Rotax is generally very good with 60mpg+. It goes down quite a bit at high speeds though, Colebatch told me that his was drinking more or the same as the BMW 800 twins then. Shouldn't be an issue for you folks in North America since you don't have an Autobahn! :evil
  19. jdrocks

    jdrocks Gravel Runner

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    don't know about tony, but my XC is sitting in the shop while i contemplate how to set up some soft luggage for it...and a few other changes.

    [​IMG]

    the XC was never a real popular bike in the States and can be found at a reasonable price used. i was fortunate in that the PO had already addressed some issues on the stock bike and changed out the shock, wheels, and exhaust, otherwise i might have gone a different direction. it's going to be set up to go some places where a rat ninja just won't travel. plus, i wanted fuel injection and there just aren't many with the service intervals of the rotax engined bmw. my fall/winter project.

    my rat ninja is still on the road and is being final prepped for a another run north across the border. 19" front now on the bike, i wish all mods were that easy. the bike is great on that kind of trip. very fun, nimble, fast.

    lucas, did you build a different bike, or are you riding what was already in the stable? i lost track, or wasn't watching the right place.
  20. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Wow, that one is a peach and it's mint! Didn't know that you had bought it already. From here I see Excel wheels, Öhlins shock, Leo Vince exhaust,.... Cool ride! :thumb

    These days I actually do my 3 minute commute on a 125cc scooter (what can I say, with a business suit on it's just the most practical... :D), use the DR for around town, gravel etc, the R6 for track days and my cousin's 520 EXC for offroad (he is in Russia for a semester).

    Project wise the 525 EXC is currently getting converted to full SMR (supermoto) spec, so basically everything but the frame and swingarm is changed (all bolt-on stuff so nothing complicated). The BMW F650 twin is getting a full KTM/WP front end, repainted F800 body work, F800 rear shock and tubed wheels. Then finally I'll use a few parts from the EXC to build it into a big bore stroker 576, with a 2008 505 SX-F frame, and rally tanks/fairing I got from a Dakar finisher.

    Or - much more likely - I will run out of money and time and just keep rocking the 125cc scooter. :super