The KaTaMaki 650 ADV project (KTM LC4 gets a twin engine swap)

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by LukasM, Apr 22, 2009.

  1. SamM

    SamM Jeep Overlander

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    #21
  2. GodSilla

    GodSilla I did that.

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    V twin? Aprillia 550, lightwieght, FI, powerful, reliable.

    Shits andn giggles? CR500, ultralight, tons of power, FI? Who cares man.....:eek1
    #22
  3. mousitsas

    mousitsas Long timer

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    :lol3

    and low maintenance too!
    #23
  4. wrk2surf

    wrk2surf on the gas or brakes

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  5. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Grafting everything onto the Versys or ER-6/Ninja frame might be possible, but I think it will end up being just as much or more work than a swap. I also doubt that it will work together as well as the LC4 chassis. This guy tried it:

    http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319441

    I would also like to end up considerably lighter than 200kg. Around 160kg (without fuel) should be doable, apparently the Versys engine weighs around 55kg (to be confirmed). So slightly more than an LC4, but I can save a bit with lighter muffler, fiberglass fairing, rally tank etc. Something like Jaybo has done on his LC4, except for the rear tank I have almost all the parts anyway:

    [​IMG]




    I have a feeling that a 160kg Adv with a 62+ HP twin would be a lot of fun....


    The Versys engine seems to be quite compact. I am going to the local Kawi dealer (who happens to be a family friend) and will get some measurement this weekend. Hopefully I'll get in a test ride as well.

    I agree the BMW 650 would be the easiest choice. I might still end up doing that if I find a good deal, but but it wouldn't be anything you can't do with a farkled X-Challenge. Touratech rally fairing, front tank, and steel subframe, etc. Could have just gotten this bike on Ebay a few weeks ago, sold for €6k or so:

    [​IMG]
    #25
  6. Max Kool

    Max Kool Xtankteam™

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    LukasM,

    The Xchallenge engine might not even be such a simple job, remember the head has a vertical design, meaning inlet trajectory doesnt point backwards, but upwards instead. Jeah, I see what you think, you might flip that inlet rubber 180 degrees, but it's still very high built. Hard to fit that in a frame with a central spine imho.

    [​IMG]


    But how about a PAMI tuned 700cc F650 Funduro engine?
    #26
  7. makazica

    makazica Been here awhile

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    How about a new Husaberg FE 570 engine....

    It would kick ass.....
    #27
  8. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Good picture Max! I was not aware how tall it really is with the throttle body attached. Is the 04-07 F650 engine the same?

    PAMI would definitely be fun as well, but I don't even want to think about all the €€€€s a 700cc mill from them would cost. And fuel efficiency? :eek1


    Heard lots of good things about the new Bergs as well, would love to own one when the 2nd hand ones come down in price.

    But in the unlikely case that you could find one for sale, why would you put it in a heavy LC4 chassis? It's a race engine, and should be in a race bike. For an adventure bike it doesn't fit with criteria 2, 3, and 4.
    #28
  9. Maurizio

    Maurizio 2 smoker

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  10. Gimme 2

    Gimme 2 wheels , with nobs

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  11. Max Kool

    Max Kool Xtankteam™

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    Yup, from 2000 and onwards. Up to 2003 single spark, 2004 and onward dual spark, but basically the same layout. All FI Rotax/BMW's 650 are built like this. Might explain why none of them have a central spine frame. However, there is still the Aprilia version, which I believe has 5 valves instead of four. But I can't really find if there ever was an Aprilia FI version of that bike, or that they only switched to FI with the new Minarelli mill.

    Maybe you can find a PAMI engine on ebay or mobile.de, or a racing team that quit using Beemer engines? Dunno

    Good luck, and don't let us pull your genious and enthousiasm down, I love what you are doing, and how you think "out of the box".


    Max


    PS, how about an older aircooled Rotax 650cc engine, like ATK's used to have?
    #31
  12. Kawidad

    Kawidad Long timer

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    I too thought about this conversion. I thought the ideal motor would be either a DR650, if you want to go light weight single. Lots of support, can bored out and lots of options.

    My preference was: an XS650. Old school twin. The XS is very reliable and simple to maintain. Can be bored out to 750 cc and make a surprising amount of HP for not a lot of money. Substitute the radiator for an oil cooler. Flip the rear tire around and make a new brake bracket, since they are a reversed drive vs the Rotax mill. Ton of info and support on the internet for the XS because its such a cult bike. I'd go with a newer one with electronic ignition, say about 1981.:evil
    #32
  13. rickf

    rickf oldfatguyMAN

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    Engine Type 804

    • <LI class=Content>4-stroke <LI class=Content>2 cylinder in-line <LI class=Content>4 valves / cylinder <LI class=Content>62.5 kW / 85 HP <LI class=Content>86 Nm <LI class=Content>798 ccm <LI class=Content>6-speed gearbox
    • Mass balancing via balancing rod
    [​IMG]
    #33
  14. TebKLR

    TebKLR Been here awhile

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    Kawasaki 750 2 stroke triple with Denco expansion chambers, of course (sounds as realistic as many of the other posts).
    #34
  15. dhally

    dhally Hammerhead

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    I'm thinking a 500cc 2-stroke single. Very compact. Lots of power. Cheap and easy to find.

    You've already got a huge fuel tank, so range would be OK.
    #35
  16. bk brkr baker

    bk brkr baker Long timer

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    650 Triumph from the sixties. No right side drive though. Able to build up to 75 hp. ,fairly compact. no radiator but you'll need an oil tank. Desert Sled , baby!!!!!!!!!:evil
    #36
  17. dwayne

    dwayne Silly Adventurer

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    The LC4 frame will adapt to either side output. Though they swiched the drive side, they didn't change the frame much. You would have to change the swingarm (for the rear brake mount) though.

    An Aprillia V would most likely fit, don't know about reliablility.

    Going to a twin you might find you have C/S sprocket off set issues.

    Don't forget the sport quad motors. The Yamaha Raptor is a 700cc single FI (based on the 660).
    #37
  18. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    More cool ideas... But I would like to keep some sort of budget so I will go with a readily available engine. If I can get one with modern (but still reliable) technology, even better. In that spirit I did some more googling on the Versys/Ninja twin. I actually think this might work....

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Have a test ride scheduled for tomorrow so I will see if I actually like it. When I have the bike I will try to get some engine dimensions as well. I figure I can get the whole shebang for about $1k including engine, gauges, wiring harness with the sensors, FI and ECU. Anything else I am forgetting?


    The Yamaha single is still in my top 5 choices. In the 700 version I might actually have some power as well, the normal 660 is quite boring.

    That's good news on the KTM frame as I don't have one yet to look at. The sprocket is sort of inset on the 650, so hopefully it will not be too wide for it:

    [​IMG]


    Damn.... this could really be a cool project!:wink:
    #38
  19. Laromonster

    Laromonster Vesperado !

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    you might try one of these

    [​IMG]
    #39
  20. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

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    Now there is an original choice! :clap

    Unfortunately it fails requirement #2. And you have to choose between 4 or 5...:lol3
    #40