The KaTaMaki 650 ADV project (KTM LC4 gets a twin engine swap)

Discussion in 'Some Assembly Required' started by LukasM, Apr 22, 2009.

  1. alpiv

    alpiv Sr. nOOb

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,173
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN

    I'd have to disagree, depending on what you are looking for.
    I would rather a lower compression and lower geared bike.. Yet one that can do 70/80 all day long as well as put the power to the ground as the bike does now.. Controllable power
  2. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,445
    Location:
    On a RTW ride - next stop USA!
    Triple good news today! But first I'll respond to a few posts.


    Ha, same thinking then. Not sure if that speaks for either of us with the other money-pit projects we have going on! :freaky

    If you are ever bored you could stop by (maybe bring Mr. Manners in your hand luggage). :wink:


    Did you just say bullet proof and LC4 in one sentence? :lol3

    The more I think about it, the more it makes sense to go with the twin. My DR runs very well now (better than the LC4 with Dellorto carb). Even if the LC4 would hold up, it would still be a single with lots of vibes and not feel good on the highway. And it won't ever come close to the twins 72+ HP and 50+ mpg.


    Thanks for the info. I would prefer not to mess with the oil sump since it's a proven design, so hopefully it will fit without having to do so. And I will definitely get a custom skid plate that should protect it! I'll know more once I can compare engine and frame.


    It will have more power, less vibes, use less fuel, not be as stressed on the highway, longer service intervals, longer engine life, be more reliable and ..... Well, I guess that's about it! :D

    A buddy would have given me a "reliable" F650 engine (with a gearbox problem) for free, but I think I have given up on the idea. Other than slightly improved economy it wouldn't offer me anything over the DR.


    Are those the ones with the silver tank? My former neighbor was an XT nut and always had a few of them around, unfortunately I never caught the bug. Even if it would hold up forever and work ok offroad, I'd probably fall asleep riding it on a well surfaced roads. Need mo' powa!


    I have not thought about that at all yet. Is it really that small? Maybe go with a small Li-Ion battery relocated to the skid plate and make a new box out of composites that uses the new space. My knowledge of air box design is admittedly very limited. Would there be anything to watch out for other than increasing volume and a large enough opening located as high as possible?




    Thank you for that video!!! I had never seen it before and absolutely loved it.

    I would have preferred the Versys engine as well but it wasn't really a choice since I got such a good deal on the Ninja. But at least now I have all the electronics and can modify the frame the fit the engine. Should a cheap Versys engine pop up for sale, I will definitely grab it.





    And now for the good news:

    1. I contacted the guy who posted the Aprilia SXV with ER-6 engine video on Youtube. He already signed up for the forum and will hopefully chime in here soon. Welcome David! :freaky

    2. My LC4 engine sold on Ebay today, for about the same as I have into the whole ER-6.

    3. The ER-6 was delivered to my garage yesterday. I won't be there for another 2 weeks, but my buddy took some pictures for me. Engine looks good and headers are only slightly tweaked. Quite a few parts from the tank back that I can sell to free up some funds.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    Either those cast wheels are strong or the forks are weak! This is the third Ninja I see with them cleanly broken off.

    [​IMG]
  3. clapped_r6

    clapped_r6 The Spoad Warrior

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,739
    Location:
    Ridgefield, WA
    This is going to be great!
    :bow

    Watching REAL close!
  4. SquareWire

    SquareWire The Black Fulcrum

    Joined:
    May 23, 2009
    Oddometer:
    4
    Location:
    UK London
    Good afternoon fellows!

    I'm the guy with the custom built Aprilia SXV with ER6N engine, you might have seen it on youtube (link) . Lukas invited me here, so I'm ready to help to whom require.

    Any questions please feel free to ask.

    Lukas, first of all, however I'm not sure about the LC 4's frame, I guess you'll need to modify it like I needed to with my SXV. I'll make many photos about mine so you'll probably see the main "direction" . I also will make a detailed list about the process later. Gotta go now, se you all later.

    cheers
  5. dentvet

    dentvet Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,375
    Location:
    hunt country virginia
    let us know if/when the build thread kicks off:lurk:lurk:lurk:lurk
  6. kyns

    kyns Long timer

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,178
    Location:
    Pfff.

    Nice sxv Square wire! What happened to the original sxv engine, i heard those are really reliable?:evil

    Yeah you should really have a build thread of your Aprisaki!

    And maybe an onboard ride video on Youtube??!
  7. clapped_r6

    clapped_r6 The Spoad Warrior

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,739
    Location:
    Ridgefield, WA
    Keep it up towards the top. Maybe it'll get done faster?

    Just did a 5 day road trip, and there were a few times that I wished my 650cc's were from a twin and not a thumper

    [​IMG]

    I'm not sure the parallel twin "sounds" as good as a V, but it'd sound a damn sight better than my single at 80mph :arg
  8. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,445
    Location:
    On a RTW ride - next stop USA!
    Welcome David, cool to see you post on here.

    I also can't wait to see some more pictures and information on your build. Just out of curiosity, is the bike in Hungary or the UK? Even though I live mostly in Spain, my KTM and ER-6N are back home in Vienna. Only a 3 hour drive from Kecskemét.... :wink:

    As far as the frame fitment, I will know more in 2 weeks. Have to strip the adventure down anyway since the LC4 is already sold and I have to ship it ASAP.

    Cheers,
    Lukas
  9. IheartmyNx

    IheartmyNx Ihave2draft

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,910
    Location:
    Nashville TN, no chit, police state.
    How bout weighing that engine when you get a chance?


    I'll be tared and feathered and cast out of the Nx club but....


    swear this thing would ROCK if I can squeeze this into my 280-290lb Nx...


    Is it fwd shift? Or out the rear like most sport bikes?
  10. jesusgatos

    jesusgatos fishing with dynamite

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,443
    Location:
    on the road
    Cool project. I've got a few bastardized bikes myself.
  11. LukasM

    LukasM Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,445
    Location:
    On a RTW ride - next stop USA!
    I am absolutely going to weigh both engines, probably most other parts as well. From what I was able to find online - which wasn't much - the 650 is supposed to weigh around 60-65kgs and the LC4 35-40kgs. I hope that the difference won't be that much, but let's see.
  12. clapped_r6

    clapped_r6 The Spoad Warrior

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,739
    Location:
    Ridgefield, WA
    More more more! Hurry up and get home!
  13. alpiv

    alpiv Sr. nOOb

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,173
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    Ok, did some digging, I believe I had a donor bike (yet need to call)..
    So, I figured I would start with the rear end, since the Versys and Nija motor are about the same, and both are left drive, we need to look into an alternative for the swing arm...


    <table><tbody><tr><td> KTM Part#</td><td>Desc.</td><td>Price</td></tr><tr><td>7651308000101</td><td>BRAKE CALIPER - WITHOUT PADS</td><td>176.74</td></tr><tr><td>7651000104430</td><td>REAR WHEEL CPL. 2,50X18 08</td><td>580.96</td></tr><tr><td>76504030044</td><td>SWING ARM CPL. 08</td><td>679.94</td></tr><tr><td>75304037044</td><td>SWINGARM BOLT L=246 M12X1,5</td><td>60.3</td></tr><tr><td>76504038000</td><td>SPECIAL SCREW M12X40 SW19</td><td>17.84</td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" align="right">Total (US Dollar)</td><td>$1515.78</td></tr></tbody></table> These parts are associated with the 2009 690 R --
    One question still outstanding is the gap for the swing arm and mounting... to the frame or motor....

    Still researching
  14. overlandr

    overlandr Dystopist

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Oddometer:
    5,924
    Location:
    Sydney
    I thought we were talking pre-690 here ie 640 etc.?:scratch
  15. dorkpunch

    dorkpunch Oops...

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,401
    Location:
    Blackfoot, ID
    didnt read the rest of the thread, but... Why cant you just flip the tire around? You'll have to do some changing around for the brakes and stuff, but since I'm to Lazy to walk the 50 ft to my garage and look at my LC4, is there anything major in the way of just turning the tire around so the sprocket is on the correct side? I have a '78 KTM MC5 I'm planning on stuffing a built XL350 motor into, and it has the same problem, but it looks like it would be incredibly simple to swap the tire / brakes around and use a cable instead of the push rod...
  16. alpiv

    alpiv Sr. nOOb

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2004
    Oddometer:
    2,173
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    We are talking the 640, yet due to the placement of the rear break assembly, there is a tab on the left side inside the swing arm for the break assembly to slide...

    True this could be cut and welded to the other side, yet no to sure on it's stress level.


    Just thinking out loud here.
  17. rickf

    rickf oldfatguyMAN

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2006
    Oddometer:
    1,695
    Location:
    Temecula, CA
    Wouldn't the caliper itself be backwards?
  18. dorkpunch

    dorkpunch Oops...

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,401
    Location:
    Blackfoot, ID
    Would it matter? Other than needing a longer brake line anyways?
  19. dwayne

    dwayne Silly Adventurer

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    Oddometer:
    3,623
    Location:
    wheelie in purgatory, Calgary
    you pretty much need a caliper that is made for one side or the other.

    The slider has to line up with the offset. If you flip the caliper upsidedown you hang it under the swingarm with the bled at the lowpoing.
  20. Luke

    Luke GPoET&P

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,259
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    Looking at the caliper, it's pretty clearly meant to work best in one direction. Even if it mounted on the other side, the brake pads are braced best in one direction.

    Not that it's that big a deal. There are plenty of potential donor brake calipers for a right side brake.