The Loser: Road Warrior Addition

Discussion in 'Road Warriors' started by spooph, Jul 3, 2010.

  1. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,837
    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    How much oil is getting in the airbox? A couple tablespoons, or a cup or so? Was the bike dropped on it's side when this happened, or does it happen on every ride?

    Also, is there smoke coming out of the exhaust?
    #21
  2. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,837
    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    Does anyone have a shop manual for the bike?
    #22
  3. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,837
    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    Nevermind, found it.
    #23
  4. madisonreid

    madisonreid Long timer

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2008
    Oddometer:
    1,702
    [​IMG][/QUOTE]

    :rofl

    Fantastic
    #24
  5. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,837
    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    Plugs:
    front cylinder: looks good
    rear: mixture is right, but it looks like it's been burning oil

    Compression test:
    front: 110 PSI
    rear: 115 PSI

    I added a tablespoon of oil to each cylinder and tried again:
    front: 130 PSI
    rear: 140 PSI

    [​IMG]
    #25
  6. RLK

    RLK 4,949

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2004
    Oddometer:
    6,554
    Location:
    CSprings
    :lurk

    [​IMG]
    #26
  7. Uncle Goo

    Uncle Goo Loser's Handler

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Oddometer:
    23
    Location:
    Divide, Colorado
    Went to Pablo83's today and we took off the heads. It was fun to get started and I hope we can get her up and running at some point.
    #27
  8. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,837
    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    Per Honda manual:

    Removing the valve cover
    Step one: remove engine from frame. :baldy

    We managed to remove the valve covers without removing the engine. We also removed the front cylinder head with the engine in place, but the rear was a different story. But we were able to just move the engine a little and get it off. Unfortunately the drive shaft became disconnected and I think the swingarm will need to be removed to get it back in place. :baldy :baldy

    [​IMG]

    We had a slight incident with an impact driver and now we will be looking for a new cam shaft. Anyone have any leads? :ear
    #28
  9. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,837
    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    So who's riding in this picture?

    [​IMG]
    #29
  10. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
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    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    ... well some of them at least.

    Front cylinder bore measurements range from 71.00mm to 71.03
    Rear cylinder measures from 71.02 to 71.06.

    Spec is less that 71.17 with less than .05mm taper, so the jugs are good. :clap

    Honda seems to so rarely understand their customers, but in our case they have managed to grasp the transient nature of The Loser and have graced it with steel sleeved jugs. So the bores will get a quick hone and a re-measure and we'll call it good.

    [​IMG]

    Ring end gap:
    Front 1st and 2nd ring = .559mm
    Rear 1st and 2nd ring > .813 (my feeler gauges only go to .813 and the gap was bigger than that)

    Spec = .50, so all the rings need to be replaced.

    The rear rings are worn quite badly and I'm guessing this was causing excess blow-by gasses which where pushing oil through the breather tube into the airbox.

    Another benefit of steel sleeves is that you can put oversized rings in them, AND Honda sells oversized rings for the bike. The problem is, I don't know how to determine what size to put in. Any suggestions? :ear
    #30
  11. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,837
    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    There seems to be a lot of metal flakes in the coolant. This could be the result of someone using Stop Leak or similar products in the radiator OR... we could have a shredded water pump. I'll be pulling that apart next.
    #31
  12. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,837
    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    Per Honda manual:

    Removing the water pump
    Step one: remove engine from frame.


    :baldy Okay, okay, Honda, I get it.

    [​IMG]
    #32
  13. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,837
    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    I'll post more details later, but to summarize: The Loser could really use a new engine.

    I've found one for cheap on eBay, but it's local pickup only in Jefferson City, Missouri. If anyone know someone who could pick this engine up and store it until I drive through in June, I would sure appreciate it.
    #33
  14. rcjhk

    rcjhk Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2008
    Oddometer:
    81
    Location:
    Overland Park, KS
    I can go pick it up tomorrow or Monday and keep it at my house in the garage until then. I'll PM you with contact info. I'm located in the Kansas City area.
    #34
  15. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,837
    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    It's hard to tell exactly what the causes where for all the various repairs on this bike. My guess is the weep hole on the water pump started to leak. When this happens it means the internal gaskets on the pump are bad. I believe a previous handler thought the external seals where bad so they added RTV gasket to the seal. When this didn't fix the problem they added JB weld to the bottom of the pump where the fluid was dripping.

    Anyway, the internal seals on the pump are bad. The pump in not rebuildable (dumb), it needs to be completely replaced. Honda has discontinued the pump. There are none available on eBay.

    While disassembling the engine we managed to break a cam (that's another story). There are loose pieces of RTV gasket all through the engine. All of these things led me to look for a new engine, and I've bought on in Missouri for only $26!!! (http://www.ebay.com/itm/150803817497)

    [​IMG]

    I'm going on a trip to Georgia later this month so I'll be driving through the area and I can pick it up. The engine is out of an '86 Shadow (still 500cc) and I believe it is identical to the '84 Ascot, but that's going to be a bit of a gamble.

    Thanks to Redburn for picking up the engine and rcjhk for volunteering as well.

    If this works out it will reduce the repair costs of The Loser by about $450, and frankly, without a cheap engine like this, The Loser would be in great danger of becoming a parts bike. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this will all work out.
    #35
  16. Uncle Goo

    Uncle Goo Loser's Handler

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2012
    Oddometer:
    23
    Location:
    Divide, Colorado
    I'm glad you were able to get the engine. I've been busy with work this week but if you let me know when you want me to come over and help I'll do my best to stay away from the cams.
    #36
  17. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,837
    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    Summer's really been busy and I haven't been able to work on The Loser, but I've finally been able to pull it into the shop. The frame and engine on the right is the donor engine I got on eBay.

    [​IMG]
    #37
  18. Lomax

    Lomax Nanu-Nanu Adventurer

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2004
    Oddometer:
    9,454
    Location:
    Westminster Colorado
    I don't know if I should :lol3 or :clap. But way to go bringing the Loser back to life. BTW: remember to use plenty of red wire and that is what binds it all together.


    Marc
    #38
  19. Pablo83

    Pablo83 Sleep, Wrench, Ride

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2008
    Oddometer:
    4,837
    Location:
    Woodland Park, CO
    Well I was told that this new engine was a "runner", but after pulling the valve cover I can see it was not a good runner. One of the valve adjuster jam nuts came loose and this is what the clearance looks like:

    [​IMG]

    Damage report: one of the valve keepers has partially popped out and is cracked. The top of the valve is destroyed. The rocker arm face is also destroyed.

    [​IMG]

    hopefully there are enough good parts from both engines to build one good one.
    #39
  20. RLK

    RLK 4,949

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    Nov 22, 2004
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    Location:
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    Well that's disappointing. Donor bike has some stories too. Hope, and luck to you as you go. Thanks for sharing your progress.
    #40