The Official 2012 F1 Thread. Spoilers possible!

Discussion in 'Racing' started by shrineclown, Nov 27, 2011.

  1. A. T. T-W

    A. T. T-W Can't be bothered.

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,422
    Location:
    Centre of my universe
    I haven't said that it is a rule. Are you suggesting that there is no such onus on a driver? F1 isn't a demolition derby. There is enough precedence where drivers are penalised for causing an avoidable collision.

    It's only "murky" to those who want to apportion blame in a different manner than the stewards.

    How the hell can "crowding" be inadvertent? The word means to intentionally pressure another driver off the chosen line. "Crowding" without intent is called a slide or a skid. In other words, a loss of control of the car's direction (for whatever reason).

    The fact that Maldonado failed to account for the lack of grip Hamilton had is down to either his exuberance or his lack of experience (possibly both) but that's not the point. The point is that he rejoined unsafely, that he didn't have to spear into the McLaren is shown by the second lap incident at the same location when Raikkonen tried a similar pass but rejoined safely in a manner that Maldonado later claimed wasn't possible.
  2. anotherguy

    anotherguy unsympathetic

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2009
    Oddometer:
    9,077
    Location:
    the hills
    In my 40 years of racing it's always been the responsibility of the rider making the pass to do so in a safe manner.

    And it's Hamilton,WTF did you expect?
  3. eric2

    eric2 ®egister this:

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2003
    Oddometer:
    3,866
    Location:
    Austin
    :lol3 So Maldonado needs to keep track of the wear on all of the other competitors tires now?
  4. A. T. T-W

    A. T. T-W Can't be bothered.

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,422
    Location:
    Centre of my universe
    Well having followed Hamilton's McLaren long enough to see that it was struggling for grip and determined that the problem Hamilton had provided a good opportunity for him to pass, I'd expect Maldonado to have a pretty good understanding of the wear issue Hamilton was dealing with.

    It makes Maldonado's cock-up even less forgivable.
  5. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,321
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I would have thought of the two drivers, Hamilton would be the one most aware of the McLaren's level of grip.

    Given that, the "crowding" of Maldonado off the track would be Hamilton's responsibility. He's the one who chose his entry speed.

    Naturally, stewards weren't interested, just as they weren't with Kimi x2. Why have the rule if they don't enforce it?
  6. A. T. T-W

    A. T. T-W Can't be bothered.

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,422
    Location:
    Centre of my universe
    I agree but what has that to do with Maldonado's actions? Are you suggesting that Hamilton should just have pulled aside or something?

    "Crowding" must by definition be a chosen course of action and not simply the effect of worn tyres. Otherwise there would need to be a rule that requires drivers to pit for new rubber whenever they lose grip and given that the FIA has asked the tyre supplier to provide tyres with reduced life "to improve the spectacle", that seems unlikely to happen.

    The only "natural" thing appears to be the unwillingness of some to accept that the FIA race stewards found no evidence that Hamilton "crowded" Maldonado. As I said earlier, they'd have looked at the telemetry from both drivers, if any steering inputs from Hamilton showed that he'd steered into the Williams, I suspect that the penalty would have been negated. We will probably never see the traces but I'd be willing to bet a pound to a pinch of shit that the telemetry showed Hamilton steering away from Maldonado.
  7. Clem Kevin

    Clem Kevin Nude With Boots

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,046
    Location:
    San Clemente, CA
    You guys are still here crying about this?
  8. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,321
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Hamilton chose his course of action by going into that turn faster than would allow him to maintain a tighter line and not crowd Maldonado off the track. Simples. :D

    Any suggestion that Hamilton didn't deliberately force Maldo off on purpose is a bit silly, especially given how he chose to handle Maldo's re-entry. The stewards really don't seem interested in preventing that kind of driving, as they showed with Kimi on two occasions in a single race. He did the same thing. (And yes, I know the fig leaf of rationalization that they used back then.)
  9. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,321
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    7 more days and we can start crying about something else. Patience, grasshopper. :lol3
  10. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,321
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    :lol3

    No need to get so exercised.

    Both drivers made mistakes. Only the utterly naive would think that Hamilton didn't deliberately force Maldo off. And when Maldo made his re-entry mistake, Hamilton also blundered. He threw away 4th by trying to defend 3rd. Hard to see how 0 points is better than 12.

    By closing the door and inviting a collision, Hamilton threw away his race for 3 points. That's the difference between 3rd and 4th. Obviously, red mist still overwhelms his race craft at times. It's been a problem all his career.

    In conclusion, both drivers made mistakes. Much as Williams would have loved a podium, Hamilton's error was the more costly because he's in contention for the driver's title.
  11. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,321
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    The above post was in response to a post by Geode, who apparently had second thoughts about it and deleted it. :lol3
  12. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,438
    Location:
    48.8436788,-122.599317
    naked RB 8 and floor piece

    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3m_mqHNzX58" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  13. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,438
    Location:
    48.8436788,-122.599317
    alternator failure analysis

    LINK
  14. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,321
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Good link, thanks. The history of that particular alternator design is a nice insight into parts development on an F1 car. And it answered the question it raised in my mind: they are permitted to change engine appendages (alternator, water pump, etc.) without penalty (though, presumably not in parc ferme.)
  15. Dilligaf0220

    Dilligaf0220 Miserablist

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,539
    Location:
    Armpit Of Canuckistan
    Was off camping in the bush last weekend and just got a chance to watch the race.
    Really wish they'd drop Valencia off the calendar, it's always just such a boring race.



    :lol3


    And it's always Hamilton's fault, just as a rule of thumb. :deal
  16. Dilligaf0220

    Dilligaf0220 Miserablist

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2007
    Oddometer:
    4,539
    Location:
    Armpit Of Canuckistan
    :lol3
  17. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,321
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    An interesting off week.

    First, the German banker is convicted of corruption: pocketing $44 million of Bernie's money. Immediately, everyone wonders if the Germans would now charge Bernie with bribery. He remains under investigation.

    The next day Bernie artfully takes the spotlight off of his legal issues by pretending he'd sponsor a London Grand Prix. In a flash, a trivial PR stunt by McLaren sponsor Santander turns into a major story. Good job, Bernie.

    Lastly, Santander produces a video of their pretend-race which highlights the problems with city tracks. Even a route picked for its scenic interest, going past all sorts of London landmarks, becomes an anonymous concrete canyon. Even worse, the dolts run their pretend-race at night, thus making the landmarks very hard to see. Dummies!



    <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/bTfDp4eTtFg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
  18. doyle

    doyle RallyRaidReview-ing

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2004
    Oddometer:
    24,788
    Location:
    Off Piste
    Very bad testing crash for Marussian this morning. Maria de Villota. After some straight line aero testing, apparently she was coming into their pit area and the speculation is that the anti-stall kicked in and accelerated her under the loading platform of the team's lorry. Head and facial injuries that were initially reported as life threatening.

    The anti-stall kicks in when the driver slows and the ECU detects the revs falling too far. It puts the throttle at 50% to keep the engine from stalling. Usually the drivers have the car in neutral by that point and it's a non-issue, but it is suspected that on only her second test, she may have been caught out. Seems a little odd to me that the functionality could be engaged while a gear is selected, but I am not completely sure of it's full parameters.

    Best thoughts for her.

    :eek1
  19. RedRocket

    RedRocket Yeah! I want Cheesy Poofs

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2003
    Oddometer:
    22,751
    Location:
    SoCal


    Wow, electronics by Toyota.
    Hope she's gonna be OK.
  20. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,321
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Doyle, thanks for the explanation. I'd been trying to figure out what had happened. Very sad. I hope she recovers, isn't brain impaired and isn't disfigured. That's a lot to hope for, I suppose. Best wishes.