The Official 2013 F1 Thread. Spoilers possible!

Discussion in 'Racing' started by g®eg, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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    Good thing there's some controversy after a somewhat boring race...
    It'd be a long three weeks otherwise.

    I have to say the thing about the race & team orders in general, is that first & foremost it is a team sport. All the money that comes in at the end of the season for winning is based on the constructors championship, so it seems to me that it is a bit of a slap in the face to the team if a driver gets selfish.

    I'd love to see them sit Vettel for one race, but at the end of the day he scores team points, so they won't do it. Maybe they'll let the backup driver take some P1 or P2 time in China.

    The German contingent at Mercedes is up in arms with Ross Brawn as well. So things aren't rosy in that team either.

    I guess it's roll on China in three weeks!
  2. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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    from F1 +

  3. A. T. T-W

    A. T. T-W Can't be bothered.

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    If they don't and come out with some old bollocks about having cleared the air, after such a public refusal to do what his team principal told him to do, then Horner is going to become a laughing-stock in the media and in the sport, probably within Red Bull Racing.

    This may end-up with ultimatums being bandied about. If I were in Horner's shoes I'd demand that the Red Bull bosses back me or sack me. Anything less undermines his authority within the team disastrously.

    As you quite rightly say, first and foremost F1 is a team sport. There has to be a demonstrably clear pecking order. Vettel hanging his head and saying sorry isn't going to convince many that Horner has control.
  4. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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    :clap

    well said.

    [​IMG]
  5. mdubya

    mdubya Right Brigade

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    :rofl
  6. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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    this probably won't last long on YouTube

    <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/sC80oECLICo" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="480" width="853"></iframe>

    <iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jbb3tYcyRvw" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="480" width="853"></iframe>

    [​IMG]
  7. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    Red Bull won't discipline Vettel. They never have, and he has disobeyed team orders on several occasions in the past.

    Usually, it's when he has the lead late in a race and they tell him to dial it back (sound familiar?) Vettel ignores them and pushes his equipment so he can set fast lap on light fuel tanks.

    Helmut Marko, whose power I don't quite understand, protects the boy. Vettel has turned into a spoiled child. He's never held accountable for his actions.

    So is it any surprise that when he's told to not touch the piece of candy on the table, he immediately stuffs it in his face? He doesn't believe has has to obey orders because he never has and he's never been spanked for it.

    Nothing will change. I'd be astonished if Red Bull sit him. Too much is at stake and he's too well protected. This will be one more compromise that Horner has to live with. But his arrogant and dismissive radio comment about Webber, and his theft of the race from a trusting teammate, have revealed the stain on his character.

    ps Typical that Mercedes have their best finish since they bought Brawn, and Lauda is causing trouble. All the whispers about him were true. He should be celebrating, instead he's busy undermining Ross Brawn.
  8. WildAnCrazymtl

    WildAnCrazymtl Political Prisonor

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    Great picture ! :lol3
    The only real question is will the student eventually surpass the master !

    Maybe I watched a different race but around lap 28 Vettel started to mention how slow Webber was. Then after losing time behind Webber, Vettel got stuck in traffic after the next round of pit stops. He then had to pass Hamilton and another car... to get back into second. At his first attempt out of the pits to pass Webber Horner mentioned that Seb was being silly! Nerver said don't pass your slower teammate, stay behind Webber or anyting to that effect. Rus Brawn was pretty clear with Nico...

    I also don't think it would be a good idea for Horner to say back me or sack me because I believe Webber is right about one thing: Seb is protected ! And rightfully so, he gets the job done. 3 DWC's, 27 race wins and numerous poles.

    If anyone should be sat down for a race it should be Horner for not getting Seb through eairlier! Keeping Seb behind Webber is not in the best interest of Red Bull Racing! It is piss poor leadership !

    If I am wrong and Horner and the team sit Seb down... Great, Vettel can take his ass to Ferrari next year and spank Red Bull Racing and Alonso too ! :lol3

    Vettel is the heart and soul of Red Bull Racing ! Like it or not, Vettel is also the hottest driver at the moment and will probably be so for a while. Get used to it ! :deal

    My two cents!
  9. mdubya

    mdubya Right Brigade

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    And that is all that matters. :1drink
  10. PeteN95

    PeteN95 Long timer

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    Remember the good old days when Lemans was an endurance race and F1 was a sprint?!? :lol3
  11. buzybraza

    buzybraza Been here awhile

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    YES! Unfortunately! In a world without dignity, honor or anything good, it is all that matters!

    The guy already has 3 crowns and he will become more and more like Michael Schumacher as time goes by.

    Greed, disrespect, betrayal, arrogance, etc....
    Viva Vettel! Lets step on everyone to get that 4th crown!
  12. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    At that time, Webber was under team orders to save his tires. It was the same order to save tires that Vettel later decided to ignore.

    Remember, there's a substantial delay on when we hear the radio transmissions -- perhaps as much as a full lap.

    Also, Red Bull clearly gave an order not to pass. Listen to the video of the driver's waiting area when Webber and Vettel meet.

    First words out of Webber's mouth? "Multi 21". Apparently that's Red Bull's team order for dialing back the engine and staying in position.

    ps If Vettel ever goes to Ferrari, he'll find out who really runs things. And it's not a driver. You'll notice how Alonso has been on his best behavior since driving the red cars.
  13. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    It's difficult to rate drivers, because equipment is so important.

    But right now I'd rate Vettel as 3rd best. I'd put Alonso and Hamilton ahead of him.

    Vettel has never had a bad car. I can't see him doing what Alonso did with last year's dog of a Ferrari.
  14. mdubya

    mdubya Right Brigade

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    Every champion is ruthless.
  15. Paebr332

    Paebr332 Good news everyone!

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    Vettel may have been CLAIMING he was faster, but up until the final pit stop Webber turned in a faster lap time than Vettel on EVERY non-pit lap.

    http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2013/03/24/2013-malaysian-grand-prix-lap-charts/

    Turn off all the drivers but Webber and Vettel on the Grand Prix Race Chart.
  16. WildAnCrazymtl

    WildAnCrazymtl Political Prisonor

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    Unfortunately that is the way the world works, large corperations and big government has been screwing the little guy for years to retain power and get rich ! I don't like it, but I can't do anything about it! I've tried bitching and complaining but it has'nt worked well for me so far!

    Seriously... 3rd best... really... come on man! I get you don't like Vettel and that's ok... But those two cry babies, come on man! :lol3:lol3 I never liked Senna but the man could drive!

    As for what Alonso did last year in the Ferrari... He did not win, even I can do that :D
  17. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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    'Ruthless to the point of immorality'

    ESPN Staff
    March 25, 2013 [​IMG] The front page of the sports supplement in Monday's Daily Telegraph © The Daily Telegraph



    Sebastian Vettel's decision to disobey team orders and win the Malaysian Grand Prix has ensured Formula One is splashed across the back pages of today's newspapers.
    The common theme running throughout the headlines is one of war, with 'Red Bull at war' (The Telegraph), 'Webber and Vettel at war' (The Guardian) and 'Red Bull duo in civil war' (Daily Mail) added to by 'Truce over as Webber fumes at Vettel's grand theft' (The Independent) ando 'Vettel victory out of order for Red Bull' (The Times).
    It's in the editorial comment, however, where Vettel's reputation is picked apart.
    "There is the team order and then there is the double-cross. One was given and disobeyed yesterday as Sebastian Vettel showed a side of his character that defied the cuddly, cheery image of the sport's youngest three-times world champion," wrote Kevin Eason in The Times.
    "You expect a man as young as Vettel to have a backbone of steel to have been so successful at the age of 25. But he exposed himself as ruthless to the point of immorality as he defied his Red Bull team and jumped Mark Webber, his team-mate, for the victory in Malaysia.
    "There was plenty of contrition afterwards and the usual extrovert language to underline his apology. "I f***ed up," Vettel told a packed press conference. By then, he had collected his winner's trophy and banked the 25 points that took him into the lead in the World Championship standings. He will not be that sorry if he is champion for the fourth time in November."
    David Tremayne in The Independent said it was as much Vettel's actions after the race which were poor.
    "Immediately afterwards, [Vettel] explained that it was not until he and Webber were in parc ferme prior to the podium celebrations that he realised he had committed a cardinal sin. But that's where his post-race damage limitation strategy was revealed as duplicitous subterfuge."
    "An apology was the right and humble thing to do. But the truth was that we were already well aware even before he passed Webber that he was going against the orders of his team, because Horner was telling him to stop being silly and to back off. And once the deed was done, Horner warned him that he had plenty of explaining to do. So he knew full well what he had done, and the suggestion that he hadn't acted deliberately but had "made a mistake," was risible.
    "His conduct was unbecoming, the petulant act of a man who simply wants to win at all costs."
    In The Guardian, Paul Weaver said Vettel had "joined a dark list", adding:
    "Even if the Malaysian Grand Prix does not herald the immediate end of the strained but highly successful Sebastian Vettel-Mark Webber partnership at Red Bull, it does represent a new fissure, deeper and more damaging than anything we have seen before. It has also changed the way we will view Vettel.
    "The German's greatness as a driver was already assured when, last year, he became only the third driver to win three successive world championships. But on Sunday, by ignoring team instructions from his employer, Christian Horner, and choosing instead to chase down Webber to secure his 27th win, he also joined another, darker list.
    "We can now count Vettel as one of the most ruthlessly single-minded drivers the cacophonous old circus has ever seen. Being in one club, of course, does not preclude membership of the other. Vettel merely moves in alongside Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher in that respect. Maybe the ruthlessness underlines the greatness."
    Byron Young, writing in The Daily Mirror went as far as saying Vettel's "manoeuvre in the Malaysian Grand Prix was straight out of Michael Schumacher's book of world domination: utterly ruthless and morally reprehensible."
  18. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    Do you follow F1? Not being mean, but it's odd you don't know who won this very same race last year. :dunno


    [​IMG]
  19. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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    I think he meant the WDC, not the race...
    at least that's how I read it....

    damn this is the most excitement we've had in this thread since.... last year?
    I guess three weeks to china will go by just like that

    :lurk
  20. mdubya

    mdubya Right Brigade

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    The big winner this weekend: Bernie.

    :deal