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Discussion in 'Racing' started by g®eg, Nov 27, 2012.
Bernie always wins....it's in the fine print.
Yes that is what I meant... lollllllll
And your right! Great fun as long as everyone stays civil!
Three weeks will go by quick if you keep posting interessting stuff to stir thr pot...
in depth analysis of the post race....
I am laughing my ass off at work
I really like Mark Webber but it's time to put up or shut up. He needs to stop whining about not being treated as a equal within the team and start taking what he can. He's in a tough spot with one of the best, if not the best car, but within a team that is blatantly not catering to him as a driver, however, the bitching and moaning about it doesn't propel one to the front.
Hopefully what this translates into is a renewed sense of purpose for Webber as every driver's primary duty from day one is to beat their team mate. Vettel has done that handily, let's hoping Mark drops the kindly Aussie routine in favor of a fool me once, shame on you (this race), fool me twice and we'll both be walking back to the pits, strategy for the remainder of the season. Let's face facts, what does he have to lose, no way he drives with Red Bull after this season anyway.
Vettel did not hurt his team. Red Bull finished 1-2. It doesn't get any better than that.
Rosberg's situation was the same. His team would still finish 3-4 if he passed Hamilton.
So any arguments about constructor money are null and void.
Horner and Brawn both made bad calls. They deserve to have bad orders questioned. Both were trying to cover their ass from risky decisions they had made, at the expense of others.
Perhaps there is a place for team orders in the final races of the season.
Vettel and Rosberg had valid points of view and deserved more trust than they were afforded. They were discounted and the sport suffered because of it.
After the race, the top 4 drivers looked like they were attending a funeral.
The Real Housewives of Malaysia were definitely on display, and made for some nice end of race drama.
I think Hamilton and Rosberg are pretty closely matched, without an obvious number one at Mercedes (at least not yet), but Vettel is clearly the number one at Redbull. I can't imagine Vettel getting anything but a slap on the wrist, since, ultimately, Redbull the team got the highest points possible from the weekend.
A better photo
In a highly tuned organization (any org, not just a racing team) that is focused on the win (or success in general), the boss's word needs to be gold and followed to a T. If there is dissension in the ranks, either of two outcomes need to be followed through on.
Sanction to the dissenting party (IE: Vettel is disciplined)
A Change in leadership needs to happen. (All leaders make mistakes, but the team still need to support those decisions. If the decision is so bad that the team members cannot possibly follow along, that leader needs to go).
This will not end well otherwise.
A lot of people are saying Vettel is showing his true champion form and taking the win for himself. F1 is a little different from other team sports, where all the winning glory really goes to one driver (As opposed to say a Super Bowl or Stanley Cup, where the team shares the glory). These drivers CANNOT win with out the functioning of the team and that includes the other team driver.
If Vettel gets away with this action (or Horner is not replaced... but my personal view is Vettel stabbed the whole team in the back, not just Webber, so Vettel needs to be reeled in pronto), does that mean anything goes between team mates moving forward?
I just see it now... Similar scenario, but Webber saying "shag it" and taking them both out (with possible consequences on both drivers and the team's seasons).
Would make for entertainment though. :)
I would have a lot more respect, ok some respect since I currently have zero, for Vettel if he nutted up after the race and said, "Yeah, I won this bitch. I'm racing for the driver's championship and I will not follow team orders if they tell me not to pass Mark."
Instead, by pretending he didn't realize he wasn't supposed to pass Mark, he proved what a twat-waffle he is.
Is it just me, or does Vettel look like a blond Justin Beiber??
It'll all be forgotten once the next race is over. F1 lives on controversy otherwise it's nothing more than a specialized engineering exercise interesting only to the types that collect airplane and train numbers (so that accounts for us ).
Webber is paid many millions to suck it up. He'll get over it.
For me, that's 20-20 hindsight.
At the time, both teams -- staffed by incredibly intelligent, successful, experienced men -- looked at the evidence and both made the identical call call. Don't push.
Tires were in danger of falling off a cliff. Fuel levels were low. It's early in the season and engines and transmissions need to be preserved.
Wiser men than you and I came to the same conclusion. Two drivers -- both of them less intelligent, less experienced and less aware of the big picture -- did what drivers do. They wanted to advance. Perfectly natural.
One driver was a professional and did what he was told, even though he wanted to push.
The other driver betrayed his teammate's trust, betrayed his team's trust, put his car and his season at risk and went for the win knowing his teammate was forced to fight with one arm tied behind his back.
That's greedy, dishonorable and acting like a spoiled child.
F1 is so riven with politics that they're all masters of papering over their differences just to stagger on to the next race. The tension on some teams must be unbelievable!
I don't usually advocate violence as a way to resolve disputes. But if Vettel knew that Mark Webber was going to punch him in the face and break his pretty little nose every time he fucked him, I think the golden boy would think twice about screwing Webber over.
I'm up for that. Pay Per View!
That's a winner.
2 hyperthetical questions
1: 2nd last race of the season and Vettel needs to keep place to get the points to win the WDC. Webber is up his arse doing 0.3 a lap faster with 6 laps to go. They both get the order to hold formation.
What does Webber do?
Say "Remember Malaysia, Go fuck yourself!"
Or be a good boy.
2: Last race of the year. Webber has had storming year and IS 2 points adrift of SV(he could have had 2 more points from round 2). He is ahead of Vettel by a decent margin but running equal lap times. If Webber stays where he is level with Seb in the WDC.
What does Horner do? Let Vettel through or hold formation
What does Webber do if told to slow down?
I did say hyperthetical!!
Seems to me it's entirely valid to ask whether or not Webber will feel compelled to help Vettel this season.
AFAIK, he's on a one-year deal. I would think that Red Bull are unlikely to replace him mid-season. No matter what, he probably won't be re-signed next season.
So really, he doesn't have a lot to lose by retaliating against Vettel, does he?
The history books remember who won. Period. There is no category for the nicest 2nd place driver.
Sepang was one of those F1 "races" that keep me a casual fan.
Yeah Yeah Yeah I know it's a team sport, I know the drivers are supposed to "work for the team", I know there's crazy big money riding on those constructors points......
None of that makes me feel any less disgust at a faster car/ driver being ordered to finish behind a slower one. Having to watch it twice in the same "race" makes it 4 times worse.
The fact it happens everywhere (the first I was aware of was the "Let Brock Bye" in AMA Motocross) doesn't make it any easier to stomach. I'm a race fan with some technical interest, not the other way around.
Why do you assume that Vettel and Rosberg were faster? All 4 cars were supposed be be dialed down. One cheated.
When the TV played Vettel's radio saying Webber was slow, Webber was actually lapping faster than Vettel.
If both Red Bulls had been allowed to race full out, I see no reason why Webber wouldn't have maintained his edge.