The Official 2013 F1 Thread. Spoilers possible!

Discussion in 'Racing' started by g®eg, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. douglasb

    douglasb Adventurer

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    "I can't drive any slower!" - Lewis Hamilton
  2. A. T. T-W

    A. T. T-W Can't be bothered.

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    Races are won by whoever can drive the slowest while staying in front of the rest.

    The tyres are an artificial limiter just as limited fuel capacity and capped rpm are. It's just that the limits of the tyres are more obvious to the observer.
  3. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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    I thought "I've been passed by a Williams" was right up there.

    [​IMG]
  4. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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    Ferrari raced hard / tire wear be damned. Good for them.
  5. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    Gotta disagree.

    We saw passing on the track. As for The Guardian, Ferrari went balls to the wall for the entire race. They did not conserve tires. A fundamental mistake by that newspaper. I'm surprised they got it so wrong.

    I thought it was an excellent race. When Ferrari wins, all is right with the world. :D

    I agree, lovely to see Vettel in 4th. :thumb That whiny little brat was even complaining over his radio that the reconnaissance lap was too slow.

    The Lotus was again impressive. They're going to miss James Allison as the season goes on.
  6. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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  7. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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  8. HoneyBunz

    HoneyBunz Long timer

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    As always, Raikkonen was fun to watch. Drop back, recover, advance, repeat.
    Grosjean's troubling suspension failure added to the drama in a negative way.

    A couple of recurring events in F1 races so far this year-
    Tire delaminations and unsafe release from pit box.

    Perhaps Mercedes won't lose as many grid positions in Monaco, but I wouldn't bet on it. Where there's a will, there's a way.
    Ross Brawn is creating two of the most frustrated drivers to ever take the grid.
  9. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    I finally read that Guardian piece. it might as well have been written by McLaren. The principal quotes are from Button and Hamilton. Not coincidentally, they both drive for teams which haven't solved the tires. I sense a bit of disguised jingoism from the author.
  10. Paebr332

    Paebr332 Good news everyone!

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    Pattern BUSTED. :evil
  11. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    That was good, if lengthy. What surprises me is to read that people were confused by the 4 stop strategy and had trouble following the race. I don't understand why they would. It's not as if F1 has never done 4 stoppers before. It didn't strike me as being terribly complicated.
  12. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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    I wonder how many times Red Bull has done a 4 stop & won?
    I found it interesting to see that Lotus' strategy was to stop one less than their main rivals, and that Ferrari decided to go flat out and stop as many times as necessary. It seems to me that Red Bull suffered from indecision, and changed plan mid race (speculation on my part). But they seemed confused by Ferrari's tactics. From sailboat racing I learned a long time ago "indecision is the wrong decision", and I think that took down Red Bull.

    It sounds now like Pirelli has been RED BULLied into a tire change.

    http://www.planetf1.com/driver/3213/8712423/Pirelli-confirm-changes

    Its a shame that the teams who are crying loudest about tires (Merc, Mclaren & Williams) are the ones who haven't figured it out.... it seems a shame to change the tires now to suit these teams. The changes won't result in minor changes to the cars. the aero change alone caused by new tires could sound the death knell for Lotus' resurgence and might not do Ferrari any favors either.
  13. doyle

    doyle RallyRaidReview-ing

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    Whatever the technical underpinnings, the perception among those but the technically savvy is that the tires are crap. FIA directive or not, I cannot see how this is a plus situation for Pirelli. I've never been a fan since the early days of dryrotted P600's, but aside from that, unless one cares enough to delve into the particulars, the tires perform like shit, the commentary obsesses on the fact, and Pirelli is left to manage an image of tires that won't last. How does this type of racing on Sunday help them sell tires on Monday?
  14. Nostop

    Nostop Adventurer

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    Agree, I can't imagine why any company would want a product made by them, would appear to be crap (regardless of the fact, they are required to perform like that) to the general public. Surely this would kill their sales, not boost them.
  15. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

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    People -- drivers, teams, fans, commentators -- always complain about tires, no matter what. Pirelli have been told to make their tires an even bigger part of the show, so's there's a wee bit more limelight right now. But the fate of a tire supplier in F1 is to always be blamed, and never be praised. Nature of the beast. Michelin got a lot more abuse for a certain race in the US.

    If Greg's fears are correct and Pirelli stiffen the sidewall, the knock-on effect could be significant. Shame. I like how the season has been going and I don't see anything wrong with it. It's been very exciting and unpredictable.
  16. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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    I think it has a lot to do with the media banging on about tires, and the teams & drivers taking the easy way out.
    The tires are all the same for every team. Drive them hard, drive them poorly, and they come apart. it has always been thus. I guess the fact the noise level about tires has gotten so high now, its the only story worth hearing.


    F1 has always been kind of a fringe, technical game, and one of the reasons I like it so much. I think they are looking to make it more mainstream though ($$$) and maybe a little less technical. :dunno

    here's hoping the racing continues similar to the season so far with a good level of unpredictability. :thumb
  17. Paebr332

    Paebr332 Good news everyone!

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    I agree. The tires are EXACTLY what FIA asked for. They create another technical hurdle for the teams to overcome, and created better opportunities both for on track overtaking and for strategy differences. Ferrari had a good strategy at Catalunya from the first lap. Lotus had a good strategy. Other teams, not so much. Blaming your poor strategic decision on the tires is a cop out. Each team has the same tires. Some have figured them out. Some have not.

    Whining about the tires is just another racers' excuse. And now the FIA is going to reward the whiners by changing the tires. My Mom said whiners never get what they whine for. She was wrong. :cry

    ETA: Two of the four races this year have the winner setting quicker times than last season. Two have slower times this year versus last. One (China) has essentially the same time the past two years (actual difference of 0.016 seconds). In other words, there is no clear evidence that the tires this season are slowing down the pace versus last season.
  18. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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    Matt Somerfield tells me not to worry:
    a link to his (short) blog on the changes to tires is HERE
  19. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

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    I think this is spot on:

    @ScarbsF1: F1 is a Formula i.e. Tech & Sporting Regs, they get published, you design a car accordingly, If its slow its the team's issue, not the regs
  20. HoneyBunz

    HoneyBunz Long timer

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    If the cars have performance issues with tires that's one thing, but tire failures should not be tolerated. Tire failures must be investigated and improvements must be made.
    When tires delaminate that is due to poor tire design/build quality, not a car design problem.