The Official 2013 F1 Thread. Spoilers possible!

Discussion in 'Racing' started by g®eg, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. PeteN95

    PeteN95 Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,312
    Location:
    Muk, WA
    Look at the quote, I didn't say he was a bad driver, quite the opposite, I said he was a better race driver than qualifier. That is why I asked about Senna, he had 41 wins and 65 poles vs. Alain Prost who had 51/33, Senna was a better qualifier, arguably the best ever. Race driving requires planning, strategy, and knowledge, as well as skill, but qualifying is pure car control, the ability to move that car around the course in the shortest possible time. With a "hand grenade" qualifying engine and super sticky, 2 lap qualifying tires, Senna was on another level. And looking at Alonso with 32 wins and 22 poles compared to Vettel with 29/39, shows Vettel the better qualifier and Alonso the better racer.
  2. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,288
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    I just don't think you're allowing for the clear superiority of Vettel's machine. I don't believe one can look at the numbers in a vacuum.

    There's not a shred of doubt that Vettel is driving a machine custom designed for qualifying and running at the front. It does both those things better than any machine in F1 and has done so for going on 4 years now. You simply must account for that when citing numbers.
  3. Boianovich

    Boianovich Old and Cautious

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2013
    Oddometer:
    1,564
    Location:
    The Dark Side
  4. PeteN95

    PeteN95 Long timer

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2009
    Oddometer:
    3,312
    Location:
    Muk, WA
    Anybody who wins or gets pole has a great car, I am simply saying certain drivers are better at qualifying or racing and I think those numbers prove it. This has more to do with the particular driver, not the car. Although the Mercedes does have a problem with tire wear this year, making that car a better qualifier, but this is the exception not the rule.
  5. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,288
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    When one car consistently outperforms the others at certain tasks, then you have no choice but to notch down the driver's impact.

    I'm not saying that Vettel is a bad driver. I'm saying that in the Red Bull era which we are currently enduring, it's a bad idea to draw any conclusions about the qualifying skills of other drivers. Alonso's 12 poles in '04 and '05 didn't happen by themselves. Since then, other than his brief McLaren fiasco, he has been in mediocre cars.
  6. HoneyBunz

    HoneyBunz Long timer

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2006
    Oddometer:
    5,201
    Location:
    Miles From Nowhere
    The tire problem is solved. :freaky

    [​IMG]
  7. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,288
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Looks like it's going to be a Mercedes/Red Bull battle. Ferrari seem to be the third-best team. Forecast is dry, so form will hold.
  8. g®eg

    g®eg Canadian living in exile

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Oddometer:
    7,435
    Location:
    48.8436788,-122.599317
    Alonso starting on hard tires... Massa too.
    Could throw a wrench in red bull and Mercedes plans. Kimi and big John look good too
  9. luxlogs

    luxlogs Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2010
    Oddometer:
    306
    Location:
    Joliet IL
  10. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,288
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Rosberg the latest victim of pit road blundering. He doesn't make Q3 while his teammate grabs pole. They park him with 4 minutes left in Q2 and he's 2nd. While he sips a latte in the garage, 9 cars go by him. Ross Brawn's reputation takes a blow.

    Funny thing is, with 30 seconds left in Q3, he was still 6th. He was taken out by the final laps of five cars.

    Ferrari don't even make an attempt at pole, take Q3 on the intermediate tires.

    Practices times suggest that the softs fall off by more than a second a lap after about 10 laps and get progressively worse. But we've seen time and again that certain teams -- Red Bull and Lotus come to mind -- find a way to get more laps than expected out of the softs. So I'm not sure that Ferrari will inherit the lead when the cars which are on intermediates finally pit.
  11. K2vodka

    K2vodka Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Oddometer:
    224
    Location:
    My Town Chi-Town
    Thanks for the heads up! Thought I may watch it live on the net instead of the 10 am showing.

    Should be a good race. Alonso, Kimi, and Hamilton all have won and run there well. If rain was to come it would be ever more interesting.

    9 hours and we'll know how it starts... and then see how it goes.

    Let it be a great race without the Vettel gapping everyone on the start and running away.
  12. JBSmith

    JBSmith Ink-stained wretch

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2003
    Oddometer:
    1,947
    Location:
    Southern Oregon coast
  13. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,288
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Forecast is 0% chance of rain.

    It's good to know we'll have a tactical battle from the start. I guess Ferrari saw Hamilton's time and decided it was hopeless. I know Alonso was on track at the time and they yanked him in and changed tires.

    The TV kids were saying that it takes three laps to get the Kevlar tires to peak performance. But then all the front runners came out of the pits for just one final lap, so that makes me question all the "prevailing wisdom" about these new tires.
  14. A. T. T-W

    A. T. T-W Can't be bothered.

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,422
    Location:
    Centre of my universe
    I suspect it has more to do with the fact that their car isn't particularly good when light, it's not much cop in qualifying trim but it has so far this season shown that it's one of the better ones with a full tank.

    They've then opted for a strategy where they (hopefully) make up some positions in the opening laps and can run longer on the Prime to gain track position when those ahead on the Option have run out of rubber.
  15. wxwax

    wxwax Excited Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2001
    Oddometer:
    90,288
    Location:
    Atlanta, GA
    Possibly so, though it would be optimistic to hope to make up positions on the prime tire when everyone else is on the option.

    It will be a simple waiting game. And the gamble is that the option teams will have to pit before the lead equals or surpasses the pit delta time. And even if Ferrari then inherit with the lead, they'll have to be fast enough to hold the it while the other teams emerge on fresh tires.

    I guess it will be somewhere between laps 10-20 (more likely, 10-16) when we'll find out if Ferrari's gamble has worked.

    That should favor Ferrari. The prime is said to be about 1 second a lap slower. 16 laps is roughly 16 seconds, not allowing for tire degradation. I don't know what the pit delta is for Nurburgring, but it might be close to 20-25 seconds.

    It's gonna be close.
  16. A. T. T-W

    A. T. T-W Can't be bothered.

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
    Oddometer:
    4,422
    Location:
    Centre of my universe
    Alonso has been making good starts this season. Then there's the usual poor starting from Webber and the usual opportunistic moves within the first few turns - it's then a case of keeping everyone else behind until those ahead on the Option are forced in. After that, push to extend the gap before pitting and hope that it gains track position.

    It's a strategy for coping with their poor qualifying trim. It's not calculated to win races but optimises the chances of podium places.
  17. Paebr332

    Paebr332 Good news everyone!

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2012
    Oddometer:
    1,948
    Location:
    Shippensburg, PA
    Maybe the Scuderia are planning on a first turn dust up between Hamilton and Vettel. :evil
  18. wannaklr

    wannaklr Long timer

    Joined:
    May 25, 2006
    Oddometer:
    7,909
    Location:
    Back In Iowa. Quad Cities to be exactish..
    Matchett's explanation of the tire construction helped me a lot. I could not figure out how a slick could be directional. :lol3

    Guess that's why I'm watching the race and not at the Nurburgring.


    Go Webber!!

    Or Kimi!
  19. okiegtrider

    okiegtrider Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2011
    Oddometer:
    955
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    Finally found the race on live in my T.V. package. Commentary is in Spanish. I don't know what they are saying, but I'm hoping that Kimi can hang on for the win!:huh
  20. Vbird

    Vbird In Room 237

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2006
    Oddometer:
    787
    Location:
    N.C.
    Wow! That was close.:eek1