The Official F650R & F650RR thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Jakub, Dec 17, 2010.

  1. Jakub

    Jakub Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
    46
    Location:
    Vancouver
    I don't know how many other people have a F650R but I figure this might be a good thread
    for those of use who have these bikes to share info.

    I cross posted this on F650.com I hope people are cool with that, I figure there are some people that don't visit
    both sites and there might be some people here
    that can add some pics or info

    I have a little over a hundred pictures I've managed to find of the F650R & F650RR. If any of you have
    any others with any info please feel free to share.

    So on to the PICS....

    F650 Touratech Rallye brochure
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    F650RR RACE TO DAKAR




    These next ones are screen caps from the Race To Dakar TV Show, these bikes were a little
    different than the standard Touratech Rallye bikes. They were prepared by Gareth Edmunds (http://www.psemotorsport.com/web/). And had few one off bits that were not available to the public. The Race to Dakar bike didn't use the standard rear fuel tanks as the year they raced the regulations were changed to decrease distance
    between fuel stops. This was a change for 2006 and came about because of Fabrizio Meoni's death in 2005 which was in part blamed on the 50kg of fuel the bikes were carrying making them hard to control.

    In the screen caps from the TV show the practice bike seems like a more standard setup with full tanks and then the 3 race bike seem to be at a different stage of development.

    These pics show the unique custom radiators on the Race to Dakar bikes. Two separate units with more cooling capacity than stock.

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    They used a Ohlins rear shock instead of the standard WP unit from the kit.
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    Cockpit setup, They appear to be running custom triple clamps and those look a lot like the 48mm rather than
    the 43mm WP forks that came with the Touratech kit. Also note the Scotts steering dampener
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    On the left side of the Handle bar you can see the Rallye controls for the IMO and NAV stuff.
    All the standard BMW switch gear on the kit bikes is gone.
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    Instead of the standard BMW taillight they run multiple Touratech LED taillights. Each one of these
    is about a 100 bucks a pop
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    Fake exhaust silencer for storage
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    Side profile. Note the front fender is not the standard Elkamet unit but a Acerbis unit
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    Custom CNC clutch side cover, This unit is so you can open the side cover and make a clutch change without removing the
    whole cover. Cost is close to a thousand bucks from a company in the UK. This was done because at the time the
    X-challenge was not available. The X-challenge has the feature stock.
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    Race to Dakar cockpit. Complete with Iritrak, Sentinel warning system, Roadbook, GPS repeater, IMO unit, switches for
    the Sonic onboard camera system etc, etc...
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    Rear Tank.
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    These next ones are random ones of the RACE TO DAKAR bikes

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    F650RR Schalber (Works bike)



    These are all pictures I've got of the original F650RR these were the Factory BMW effort. These were by far a totally different beast than the standard F650R Touratech, and it shows. Shows what can be done with bottomless pockets.

    In the BMW museum.
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    Racing
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    Different twin exhaust and tank setup compared to the kit bike
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    Here's some Andrea Mayer porn

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    3 time Dakar winner Richard Sainct
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    F650RR carbon airbox, custom everything....nothing stock.
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    F650RR chain ramped chain adjusters
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    Custom frame, shock.......everything
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    Carbon/Kevlar skidplate with regulation water reservoir
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    Random Dakar porn
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    Note the custom drysump tank
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    Taillight looks stock :-)
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    Cockpit
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    F650R Touratech privateer race bikes

    Simon Pavey & Nick Plumb Race bikes(pre Race to Dakar)

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    Touratech VS Factory bike
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    Random ones of David Park of Dhpmoto.com fame
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    Random F650R Touratech Race bikes

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    Private F650R street legal bikes

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    Touratech USA F650R demo bike
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    And here's the same bike now in my possession stuck in my garage:-)
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    (EDIT NOV 13/11) ADDING NEW PICTURES


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    #1
  2. Fantuzzi

    Fantuzzi Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Oddometer:
    198
    Location:
    Germany, Niederrhein
    Very nice Bikes.
    Subscribed!
    #2
  3. tmotten

    tmotten Lefthand ride Dutchy

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2006
    Oddometer:
    2,616
    Location:
    Calgary
    Bloody hell. That must have taken you ages. Good work.

    Wonder how much those radiators are.
    #3
  4. Jakub

    Jakub Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
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    Vancouver

    They were made by a company called GMX radiators
    http://www.gmxradiators.co.uk/cgi-bin/shopwise.pl?id=gmx

    You could if you wanted contact them to make you a custom set, from the photo's I could see they probably took a off the shelf motocross design and modified it to fit.

    There prices seem to be around 450 pounds per set of a off the rack type. So figure 1000 bucks US shipped for a full custom job with a the plumbing (silicon hoses, fully lined, non-pinch hose clamps etc....)

    Jakub
    #4
  5. Parx400

    Parx400 Long timer

    Joined:
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    Sacramento CA
    Any Idea what was done motor wise to those bikes?
    #5
  6. Crazy Carl

    Crazy Carl Drank the Kool-Aid

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2010
    Oddometer:
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    Location:
    Sacramento Area
    As I recall the Race to Dakar bikes are fairly stock internally to promote longevity. They weren't concerned with winning as much as finishing.

    From http://www.racetodakar.com/html/rtd.html
    #6
  7. Jakub

    Jakub Adventurer

    Joined:
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    Depends which bike your talking about,
    The Race to Dakar bike were definitely stock, I'm assuming most guys running the Rallye kit would be stock as well because for most back markers the point is just to finish.


    The F650RR bikes however, were built by team PAMI for Richard Schalber. Because of how long ago it was now you could probably get PAMI to make you one and not have to worry about BMW or Schalber not wanting you to have info on Factory spec stuff. Only problem is those F650RR motors Richard Sainct had probably cost as much as a new F800 does today:lol3


    Jakub






    PS If you really do want a built motor and your willing to give up on the geek factor of having a original Team PAMI one, there are cheaper options for a big 700-800cc built race motor.

    A 105.5mm bore with a 8mm stroked crank running 11.5 or 13.0 to 1 compression, cryo treated, big valve, titanium this titanium that etc etc.
    Runs north of around 6-7 thousand bucks.
    #7
  8. plukenannabel

    plukenannabel Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 19, 2006
    Oddometer:
    14
    This is mine: considering sale though, bit too high heavy and expensive for my poor riding skils. In the hands of a pro though:evil. Location Holland, officially licenced here. (very rare). Done the dakar in 2004 with BMW Nederland, rider Ebert Dollevoet. Broke his hand in first stage, entered e few amateur ralles sinds then. Completely rebuild in 2009 not 500 miles ridden since then.

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    #8
  9. Gravel Seeker

    Gravel Seeker Thomas

    Joined:
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    As has been partly mentioned above, the BMW race bikes from '99/'00 was based on the old Funduro with carbs. The engine is slightly different than the post Dakar win in 2000.

    You can go on PAMI's website and buy all components to tune your engine to anywhere between 52 and 90 bhp (for the older Funduro engine). It will cost you though. The 90 bhp kit is €8000.... And i suspect the 90 bhp engine need servicing/ maintenance every few hours.... not too much fun if you don't have a few mechanics employed.

    I'm guessing this €465 sport cam is the most impact - easy to do - single part you can add to the post 2000 engine ? But they offer a wide range of mods including bigger bore cylinders and various weight loss programs
    #9
  10. Jakub

    Jakub Adventurer

    Joined:
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    Hello Plukennabel,

    Very cool bike... as yours has racing pedigree it's rare indeed......Mine just sat in a showroom.

    If you don't mind, and if you still have the bike I was wondering if you could give me more info on the spec of
    your bike.


    In the below photo the bike has a different rear light assembly without indicators, is this correct? How is the bike
    street legal without indicators or do you not need them in the EU. Your not running mirrors either so maybe your law are a little bit more lax than here in Canada

    Also do you have any close up picture of the rear luggage rack, I'd be really interested in putting that on my bike if
    it's a bolt on Touratech part I can order.


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    Also, You have the fancy kevlar skidplate with storage in it is there anyway you could take a picture what it look's
    like inside?

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    My bike basically runs the stock switch gear with just a one extra touratech switch assembly for the Nav/Roadbook
    I know the rally bike didn't use stock switches, but would you be kind enough to label what button and switch does
    what. I'd be really interested in what buttons' are doing what in these two photo's of the bike handlebars. I'm seriously thinking of either order these parts for my bike or making them if I can't get them through Touratech.

    Also do you have any info on what throttle your bike has, It's not the stock F650 unit like on my bike. It looks like
    a Magura 312 throttle cable assembly but I could be wrong.

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    Thanks again for sharing.:D


    Jakub
    #10
  11. Jakub

    Jakub Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
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    Vancouver


    HI Tomas,

    Your right that PAMI is the go to name in F650 stuff for sure. They built the engine for the double winning F650 Funduro rallye bike run by Richard Schalber, there stuff is really nice.

    Not sure if you know but here in North America the F650 carb engine was used in a ATV called the DS650
    and there are lot's of guys in the states that drag race it.

    There's a company called http://www.omwracing.com that makes racing engines for drag racing ATV racers

    I've heard that they have 800+ cc and even 916cc engines running way way over 100hp on nitrous oxide (wheel horse power not flywheel like the Pami numbers) and there website has 750cc and 800cc stroker's for around 4 to 5 grand US dollars (2750 to 3450 euro dollars). Granted it's all F650 Funduro style carb motor's but I'm sure they'd do the same work on a FI bike and then you'd have to tune it via power commander or something.
    Trick is like you said the maintenance and the fact the ATV guys are drag racers so using race gas and probably going only 100km before rebuilds. 13.5 or even 14.0 to 1 compression isn't gonna work on a street bike for long.

    Anyway I'd be cool to see somebody buy a used ATV racing motor just to screw around with it and see what it would do. :1drink

    Jakub
    #11
  12. Parx400

    Parx400 Long timer

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    Sacramento CA
    Ct racing sells a cam kit for under 400 that goes with a je piston that still runs on pump gas. You could do all of it for under 700. Now I don't know if those parts will fit the fi motor.
    #12
  13. Jakub

    Jakub Adventurer

    Joined:
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    Vancouver

    The DS650 motor and the Carb Funduro motor "should" be exactly the same. They share the twin intake carb setup,
    and twin exhaust step as well.

    The rest of it is up in the air. I've been comparing the Fiche's to see how many part numbers
    are the same from looking at the part numbers and diagrams.

    Here's the Funduro/GS diagram (there the same picture)
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    Here's the twin spark diagram
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    The Funduro and GS Single Spark share the same shim arrangement where the shim sits on the bucket.
    The Twin spark uses a smaller shim between the valve and bucket.

    Even though the diagram for the Funduro and the GS are the same, the part numbers are
    different. The valves are still 36mm,31mm, but the small parts are different.
    Even though the single and twin spark engines have different shim setup's they share the
    same valve's so it seems that you could convert back and forth.

    The cams are all different but I'm not sure if that is because of the shim setup or just differences in
    the lift/duration etc. I'd be interesting if anyone has the spec's in between the different years.

    about the big bore/piston kits, I remember hearing through the grapevine that it's the same all years for the Rotax although I don't know it for a fact.

    Jakub
    #13
  14. Parx400

    Parx400 Long timer

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    Ya I have done the same with some part numbers. I tried to see if the piston part number was the same between the single spark and the carb bike. The carb bike does not show the piston part number only, you have to buy the cylinder with it as a kit. The single and twin sparks use the same piston.

    Even is the carb bike and the single spark had the same piston the combustion chamber may be different. The high compression piston has cut outs for the valves and if the chamber is different it may not fit at TDC.

    It would be nice to find a Rotax Expert who knows all this stuff.

    Someone needs to be our lab rat and try the cams and piston on their bike.
    #14
  15. Gravel Seeker

    Gravel Seeker Thomas

    Joined:
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    Location:
    Dreary old Norway, dreaming of adventures past
    I'm taking donations :deal :evil
    #15
  16. Jakub

    Jakub Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
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    Vancouver

    Your right about possible compression changes, the trick of course is what kind of riding you do, and where you are in the world.

    I don't really anticipate going anywhere with my rallye bike where 89 octane can't be found. Here in Canada you can
    find 94 in bigger towns. The trick is some of the ATV racing stuff is race gas only which is a no go for an Adv bike. With the GS/Dakar motor already running 11.5 to 1 compression I don't think you can more than one point up in compression with getting detonation. I think newer bike come with knock sensors so they run a reduced out on bad gas but I know the GS/Dakar BMS doesn't support that feature. Increasing bore and stroke and probably where the gains are to be made anyway.

    Jakub
    #16
  17. Parx400

    Parx400 Long timer

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    Sacramento CA
    I didn't realize the bike was already 11.5 to 1. The HC piston for the DS650 stock bore bumps it up to 11.5 to 1. I guess that would not be useful then.

    You right any increase could be an issue. My old wr400 and 450 had 12.5 to 1 but those have modern advanced combustion chambers.

    I guess the next question is will some of the aftermarket cams for the DS fit the BMW. Lots of people advertise "sport cams" for the DS. I wonder if any of them would fit.
    #17
  18. Parx400

    Parx400 Long timer

    Joined:
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    Sacramento CA
    What we should do is buy some used cams off of ebay and send them off to one of these companies to see if they are the same. There is a set for an 03 CS on ebay in Canada right now for 65 bucks.

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/bmw-...Accessories&hash=item3f0b922e1c#ht_915wt_1165

    Any ways I sent an Email out to some of the DS650 cam makers asking them if they fit. If they dont know I'm going to pick those up and send them to them and see if they will work.

    Cams from CT racing are only 350 for a set. Same price for the next stage that requires a 11.5 piston (we already have) plus stronger valve springs.
    #18
  19. Parx400

    Parx400 Long timer

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  20. Jakub

    Jakub Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 1, 2007
    Oddometer:
    46
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    Vancouver

    Good find,

    It's say they do it on exchange for $349? Does that mean if you send your
    cam's they do it for 349 to your cams. Or is it $349 core charge??

    If they can do it to your own cams that means the cam's a regrind vs
    a cam cut of a new blank.

    The extra 10mph thing is both impressive and nearly useless to me. It' obviously means
    that the engine is breathing better, making more power, however my bike has
    21/18 Michelin desert's and the touratech rallye kit and fully topped out in 5th it feel's
    unrideable compared to my old 19/17 GS with sport rubber on it.

    It'd be more interesting to see dyno numbers.

    Still 10mph has to be something on the order of 5hp to 10hp right???

    I wonder if fueling would need to be changed at all as I've heard early model single sparks run
    pretty lean stock. My bike has a fuel nanny on it but I'm not really sure how "tuneable" it is. (ignition stuff etc.)

    Parx400 do you have a stock fuel setup?

    Jakub
    #20