The Sandbox Oil Change Discussion

Discussion in 'The Sandbox - AKA Flatistan' started by Mugwest, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. Scribe

    Scribe £Bob£

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    Ding ding ding. You have no more need for a gun that holds 30-plus rounds than you do for a 150 hp dirt bike. Even wack job Republicans are starting to come around to that idea. A ban on assault rifles is not a ban on hunting, no matter what the NRA says.

    I say ban KTMs!
    #41
  2. Scribe

    Scribe £Bob£

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    And let just add that personally, the notion of curbing violence in schools, malls, theaters … wherever … bu further arming the people who work there makes me cringe. I'd rather not send my kids to school in an armed police state. A lot of people shop at Walmart. It'd make a tasty target. You want Walmart employees packing heat? :eek1
    #42
  3. motomike14

    motomike14 Thumper Crusader

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    I don't have a dog in this fight as I a) don't own a gun (though I do have a concealed weapons permit, long story) and b) no intentions to own a gun. My personal opinion is that any legislation coming from this latest mass shooting is not going to do a whole lot, except create just more of a paper trail and confusing interpretations of said legislation.

    I'm slightly more liberal on most issues, so right away, most of my friends, and students, automatically assume I'm a "tree loving hippy." The potential ban on assault rifles and high capacity rounds seems to be a slight knee-jerk reaction. There's still a huge black market for it, so just saying "hey, we banned them!" won't really do a whole lot. Just look at the current marijuana issues (it's banned by the federal government, but by god, I can go to Colorado and light up like it were an electric cigarette).

    If they want to really get down to the nitty gritty issue, then start considering how we treat mentally ill persons in this country and their rights to any type of exposure to firearms. Then, maybe we can start to make some headway in preventing complete psychos from blowing heads off like they were can pop-tops.
    #43
  4. Mugwest

    Mugwest .

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    Packin' Workers of WalMart-- the delightful companion to People of WalMart.

    Pass!
    #44
  5. Buzztail

    Buzztail Nomad

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    This, I feel, is where things begin to divide. Many years ago things were written by men much smarter than I will ever be. I fear that their work, when opened to interpretation, is where we sway from the meaning of the document. This was the foundation of our country. A foundation on which to build. Not to be moved a little left, or right depending on who had fewer hanging chads. Not a general book of guidelines to be used to forward ones own feelings on any one matter. It was clearly written, and to say that this, or that no longer applies is to wad this entire Great Experiment up and start over.

    [​IMG]
    #45
  6. Zane Neher

    Zane Neher Been here awhile

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    I don't think it's am issue of turning schools into military compounds, but I can tell you at least 3 people that work at my local walmart carry a firearm. I don't think having armed guards at schools is the idea (though it would be a new job source) but to have teachers, principles or Counselors who have their CCW to carry, as well as any parent who may be on school grounds. No one even has to know they're armed.

    If one of the teachers had a firearm on them and used it to prtect the students, they would have buried that teacher under the jail no matter how many lives that were saved by them. That's the issue.
    #46
  7. GSAragazzi

    GSAragazzi Long timer

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    But at the end: We cant change the core of who we are and how this nation was established. 1st,2nd, 3rd and so on Amendments are the pillars of this Nation. Feelings aside we must be true to our founding Fathers and the Constitution which governs this Nation. I disagree on making any changes which will make us -as a nation- lose its identity.
    I hope this "reform" doesn't TRANSFORM this country into something it never was.
    Yes, too many inocents have died by the hands of lunatics, but far more have given their lives to protect this Nation and our Rights.
    #47
  8. Warin

    Warin Retired

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    Firstly;

    I am an Australian.

    'We' have gun control.

    I am for gun control.

    ------------------------------------- Comment: don't shoot the messenger. :rofl

    Summary: If you want something that will work, draw it up your self, DON'T LET the goberment do it for you!

    I think you should think about what restrictions you would accept.

    Round limitation?
    Would a pig shooter need more than 5 shots rapid fire? Is the pig that far away?

    Bore Limitation?
    Do you want your neighbour to have a 105mm gun?

    Licence to have a gun?

    Sanity Check?
    Should all gun owners have a mental checkup? How frequently?

    Exclude convicted persons?

    Guns storage;
    under lock and key?
    Separate amo and firing pin from gun storage?


    ---------------------

    Think about what would be acceptable, and what could reduce the rate of gun deaths there. If you don't do it ... some ham fisted barstard will. :deal May be not this year .. but eventually. Happened here.

    We no longer live in the situation of the past. Times change. If you want to go back to your founding then give up the petrol engine and the repeating gun. The past is past.
    #48
  9. Scribe

    Scribe £Bob£

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    The sad truth is that this situation was caused by a mentally ill person who got his hands on some very destructive weapons and knew how to use them. He wasn't evil—that's too easy and solves nothing—and I'll bet you his parents weren't lazy or neglectful. I've met kids like him; my wife works with them. Many such kids have no ability to empathize, no way to control their anger. They just aren't capable of doing it. When they're little you put 'em in a hold and hang on until they calm down; at about 14 or 15 you can't do that anymore. My wife has told me of parents reporting that their kids say stuff like, "I will kill you" in a chilling, completely unaffected way. At the moment, they probably mean it.

    These kids should not have access to weapons of any kind. To me that's the issue here. How that gets done is probably going to be very messy, but it needs to be done.
    #49
  10. FL Pepper

    FL Pepper OMGWTFFTW

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    Yep
    #50
  11. Mugwest

    Mugwest .

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    Apropos, got this from the basement:

    http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html

    Read it, pals. It may be the only handle we get on the Mentality of this particular incident.


    Thanks for an Oz perspective, Warin. You've essentially nailed one of the major reasons i started this thread
    #51
  12. ineptizoid

    ineptizoid I'm scared hold me

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    Just finished reading it. I can't begin to imagine what it would be like to be in that woman's situation. And I work with kids like that every single day. Being around them and dealing with them 7 hrs a day is challenging enough. I find myself wondering what these kids I work with are gonna do with their lives after finishing high school. Some of them are so socially maladjusted that I can't imagine what type of job they could hold down. And I promise you this---not a single one of them should ever lay hands on a firearm. I hope their parents realize that.
    #52
  13. Buzztail

    Buzztail Nomad

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    Deep, well written, and scary as fuck! My heart goes out to these warriors.
    I agree that these kids should never lay hands on something with the capacity to do harm on a grand scale. Much like young squids should not jump on a Gixxer 1k and speed off into the sunset on crowded streets. Neither should the radicals on ANY front be judged as the norm. The fact of the matter is that you can not regulate people into eutopia. It will never happen.

    Someone that means to do harm simply will do harm. The squid will mod his new Gixxer 600 to make crazy power, and the radical fringe will find other means of making their point... These truths are self evident.
    #53
  14. Zane Neher

    Zane Neher Been here awhile

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    Australia's violent crime went up after it's gun ban. How is that a step forward? I assume it's because you're murder rates went down? Gun ownership in the US is at it's all time high and is still rising. Our murder rate is going down. That in itself speaks entirely different than what the media, Brady bunch and your Political figures say.
    Rumor has it, we are on par with Australia's murder rate, both that are indeed declining.

    I don't see how believeing in our rights and fighting for our rights means we should ditch technological advances.

    A couple old fellas may feel the same:

    "And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; …"
    Samuel Adams

    "The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
    Thomas Jefferson

    "What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
    Thomas Jefferson

    "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Ben Franklin

    "This year will go down in history. For the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future!"
    Adolph Hitler
    #54
  15. _cy_

    _cy_ Long timer

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    from Mossad Ayoob http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/Massa...inst-monsters/
    ------
    After the Ma’alot massacre in 1974, Israel instituted a policy in which volunteer school personnel, parents, and grandparents received special training from the civil guard, and were seeded throughout the schools armed with discreetly concealed 9mm semiautomatic pistols. Since that time, there has been no successful mass murder at an Israeli school, and every attempt at such has been quickly shortstopped by the good guys’ gunfire, with minimal casualties among the innocent. Similar programs are in place in Peru and the Phillippines, with similarly successful results.

    Some people see the logic in the Israeli approach.
    #55
  16. Mugwest

    Mugwest .

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    _cy_, you've just concisely described the kind of country i do not want to live in.

    Also, the realities of Israeli security vis-a-vis its history and its neighbors is not directly applicable to the scope of this thread.

    Let's get back to what Sandy Hook/Newtown portends to evolving US gun control policy, please
    #56
  17. Zane Neher

    Zane Neher Been here awhile

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  18. Philip Kuntz

    Philip Kuntz Fleasy Rider

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    This is where you and I disagree, Mug. This is the solution IMO. Is this headline not easier to digest?

    "Gunman killed by teacher, 2 wounded"

    The teachers and staff, and parents on school property have lost the right to bear arms while on school grounds. That is the root of the problem. You can't stop psychos from hurting people, but they can be dealt with much more efficiently if you have the means in your possession. :deal
    #58
  19. LocuL

    LocuL Gnarly Infantry

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    But then again, what are the americans afraid of? I don´t get all this need for assault rifles and the like. Surely a gun/rifle locked up in the club they shoot in.

    I´m some what biased in this, i´m from Denmark and we do not have any nature of protecting our self with loads of guns around the civillians. We have the policeforce for that kind of protection.

    From an over-the-sea-point of view, NRA have way to much to say in this matter. Even not Obama can touch this. Impressive.

    Not that this tragedy couldn´t happen in other parts of the world(Norway), but I think US have high score on this one and should act accordingly.

    Regards
    Mikael
    #59
  20. Jack Daniel

    Jack Daniel See Ya At The Swamp

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    This just in...

    TEACHER OPTS TO STAND HER GROUND AND KILLS THREATENING STUDENTS
    #60