The SynLube Emails - synthetic oil usage in MC's (warning: only for anal types)

Discussion in 'The Garage' started by viseGrip, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. viseGrip

    viseGrip Adventurer

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    been doing some research into synthetic engine oils which included a rather interesting email exchange with one of the SynLub Lube-4-Life fellas. clearly there is some bias here as he only trusts vehicles with 6 wheels - 4 on the ground, 1 in the trunk and one in the drivers hands, as he puts it.

    still, he brings some rather interesting comments and data to the table. see for yourself...

    me:
    SynLube (sends 3 replies):
    SynLube:
    SynLube:
    me:
    SynLube:
    me:
    SynLube:
    so... in the end...

    i dropped the conversation at this point as he never really addressed any of the points i made in my last reply.

    i DO give him credit in that he didn't act like a typical salesman and try and push the produce down my throat, but either his logic is flawed or i'm not understanding what he's trying to get across - seems to me that in a harsh operating environment like an MC, you'd want extra protection, not less, especially where high heat can be a problem, yet he kept insisting that synthetic is useless in this application.
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  2. Wolfgang55

    Wolfgang55 Long timer

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    I actually read it all.
    I thought what he said about the MC motor which shares its motor oil w/ a wet clutch, transmission & shifting parts.
    I'm thinking the brass dogs, if they are still made from brass, for "shifting parts".
    When all these things are in the same oil bath there are 4 metals micro in size, now in the oil getting into the motor lube system.
    Here is the weakness in the current MC motor.

    Not disagreeing or taking any side here. But being very old, I may have misread as I usually say when I walk into the ladys room.
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  3. anotherguy

    anotherguy unsympathetic

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    [​IMG]
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  4. FatBob

    FatBob aka blinkerbob!

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    I own three bikes with more than 50k miles, all 10 or more years old. I don't consider any of them anywhere near the end of there useful life. All three have used synthetic oil (Mobil 1) while I have owned them.

    The SynLube guy seems to have an anti-motorcycle bias. (or maybe I just read that into hes responses):huh
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  5. PachmanP

    PachmanP Long timer

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    tl;dr

    Well made it half way through. I'm not convinced he's completely knowledgable on mc oil and engines, but I agree with his main advice. On air cooled engines use cheap oil changed often.
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  6. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    Weird how anyone takes crap from snake oil sellers seriously! No matter what oil is being used in an IC engine, as well as metallic particles from internal parts wearing (some non magnetic), there will be water, acids, and inevitably particles of carbon.

    In this case the snake oil guy seems to be suggesting that these contaminants dont exist, so its perfectly ok to use his product and forget about oil changing!

    If this nonsense was correct, then I would think motor manufacturers would have worked it out some while ago, and new vehicles would all come from the factory with snake oil in the motors.
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  7. anotherguy

    anotherguy unsympathetic

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    While I agree that oil doesn't "wear out" the contaminants noted above do make oil unusable. There are certain industrial applications where oil has an indefinite lifespan. However none of them include an IC engine.

    While I couldn't read all the above I would like to see certifiable references for the "certified useful life" classes he refers to.
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  8. kpt4321

    kpt4321 Long timer

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    Wouldn't breakdown of oil molecules or polymer chains (or whatever, sorry, not an oil engineer) occurs due to forcing the oil through orfices, shearing action (especially in gearboxes), etc?

    I don't have much to comment on about that email chain, clearly the guy doesn't have much understanding of... science?
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  9. viseGrip

    viseGrip Adventurer

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    i wouldn't call him a snake-oil salesman at all - quite the opposite - he suggested i DON'T use their product and, instead, use cheap oil and change it often

    those references exist in the links he provided. i don't have an issue with their validity, but the problem i see is that the 5 yr./18K mi. "useful life" seems to be based on politics regarding emissions and not real-world engine service life. i think the first part of the EPA doc i linked to supports that assumption very well - emphasis is mine...
    Miro from SynLube seems to completely ignore any evidence which suggests the real-world useful life is far different from the "useful life" in the documentation.

    he did get back to me on where he obtained the oil temperature figure for MC engines...

    the rest of that email i am not quoting here because it is irreverent and is literally nothing more than personal attacks and how no "normal" person rides a motorcycle in the U.S. and his superior credentials, etc. - amazing what a college education can buy these days

    in another email he provided the following info...

    at any rate, i hope this information may be helpful to others when deciding whether to run synthetic in our bikes. the unfortunate part is that the credibility of Miro is, in my mind anyway, questionable due to his blatantly obvious dislike of vehicles with less than 6 wheels; "4 on the ground, a spare and one in my hand"

    motorcycle, car or otherwise, i know i won't be buying oil from anyone as unprofessional and elitist as Miro form SynLube
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  10. ezrdr55

    ezrdr55 Been here awhile

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    What do you call someone that speaks without knowledge of the subject? A salesman. :D
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  11. viseGrip

    viseGrip Adventurer

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    wanted to add this to the mix, just as a reference - this is specific to the 07 DR650SE, but i would imagine it's the same for a very large number of bikes. the manual calls for an API classification of SE, SF or SG.

    i robbed this from thumpertalk which defines the classifications...

    so Miro gets some credibility here - he stated that bike manufacturers are using 50 yr. old technology in their engine building techniques and, apparently because of this, manufacturers are recommending obsolete oil technology. this may not be what many of us would want to hear, but there it is.

    wikipedia...

    also see "motorcycle oil" from wikipedia
    #11
  12. Dave in Wi

    Dave in Wi Long timer

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    I have a hard time with some of the points he makes about motorcycle engine longevity, but I won't argue with his advice to use conventional oil & change it often. That's what I do. I know it's crazy but I use Honda conventional motorcycle specifiec oil (my transmission seems to shift best with it) and change it at 3,000 miles. I expect my engine will be running just fine long after I sell it.

    I really don't understand the fascination with using synthetic oil and extended change intervals. I look at my oil after 3,000 miles and think "that's really dirty, glad I'm changing it". I can see if you do a ton of miles, you woudl want to extend the drain intervals. But with a wet clutch, I'd stay away from synthetics unless they are motorcycle spoecific.

    Oh man I just got sucked into an oil thread...
    #12
  13. gmiguy

    gmiguy You rode a what to where?

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    Sounds like a toolbox.

    Somebody should ask him what the silver thing is at the top of this picture on the front page of his website, right below the text that says "Whatever you drive, or operate".

    [​IMG]

    To my untrained eye, it appears to be some sort of motorized cycle.

    Please post the remainder of the email where he rants about his credentials and how no normal person would ride a motorcycle. I suspect it will be a good read.
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  14. MrBob

    MrBob Out there

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  15. viseGrip

    viseGrip Adventurer

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    thanks - i actually read just a bit of that before. are you "bob"?
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  16. bisbonian

    bisbonian Long timer

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    But it doesn't really matter what you consider to be the lifespan of your motorcycle as far as rules and regulations are concerned.

    There was a thread over on Stromtrooper a few years ago started by a guy who had a catastrophic engine failure while heading up to Deadhorse.

    To make it worse his partner had a very similar failure about a day later, I believe these were both on DL1000s.

    They contacted Suzuki upon their return showing all of their maintenance records and such asking for a little help in fixing their bikes.

    Suzuki's reply was that at 26000 miles these bikes were past their usable life and as such Suzuki could not be expected to provide any sort of assistance with the repairs.

    Now we all know that the average V-Strom is going to go past 26k miles (most likely) so we would feel that this is a load of BS. However it points directly to what the guy in the email was stating.
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  17. MrBob

    MrBob Out there

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    Not the oil Bob, just a regular Bob, but I turn to his web page often when the delicate subject of oils enters the discussion.
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  18. viseGrip

    viseGrip Adventurer

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    yeah, hell of an information resource - i read through a bunch of interesting threads there today
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  19. Twin-shocker

    Twin-shocker Long timer

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    Why not ask the snake oil guy, how exactly his wonder product works in an IC engine, which by default creates byproducts which over a period of time contaminate engine oil to such an extent it becomes unusable?

    That applies equally to all IC engines............bike motors are certainly harder on oils, and engine failure would occur sooner if this guys product was being used and not being changed at least as regularly as a non snake lube was being used.
    #19
  20. hexnut

    hexnut Been here awhile

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