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Discussion in 'The Perfect Line and Other Riding Myths' started by Jim Moore, May 7, 2014.
Just for a bit of fun, say I wanted to test the speed comparison between say a liter bike and say a comparable 600cc bike, and selected a real world public road (closed) with a bit of everything thrown in to see how they compared. You'd need to have a decent distance, something like just under 40 miles.
So my question is how much quicker do people think a high performance 1000cc bike would cover the 40 miles of real world roads compared to a comparable 600cc bike?
For me it's not how fast I can ride to the destination on my Blackbird but rather how much fun I'm having when I accelerate. Also, it feels good when the squid on that 600 is at the light next to me revving it up. Nods are traded and light turns green...he's trying hard to catch up to the old man on the old rocketship in ATGATT.
For me, it's about how the bike does it. I've had 600's and liter bikes (currently have a GSXR 600) and while I doubt I'm very much faster, if at all on the liter bike in that real world scenario, more times then not I'll have more fun on board the liter bike. The rush of all that power coming on line is intoxicating. I mean the reason most of us ride is because it's FUN! I know more then one person that rides a 600 not because he prefers them, but because of the costs.A liter bike is just more costly.
Not sure if that is one litre, or 1.25.
My first intro to liter power was on the venerable 1984 VF1000F Interceptor. Bought it used from a buddy (Hi, Mikey!) and took off for home with an open face helmet. Fuck, first time I got it over 5000 rpm, I was looking for a store to buy a face shield because of the tears streaming frm my eyes going on. The feeling jumping to light speed is intense and addicting. I'm currently piloting a Daytona 1200 with a mere 110 hp to the rear wheel and it's too much fun.
Similar story on the VF. I had just advertised it for sale and my 17 y/o son was itching to ride it before it went to someone else. He had a whole year riding street under his belt on a CX500 and was feeling confident. Tossed him the keys and said keep it under 5k rpm. You know he had to try it. His eyes when he got home said it all. Pure, hilarious saucers for eyeballs. :eek1 I just laughed like hell when he popped the helmet off.
I may never get to be on a starship, but I can experience the jump to warp speed. You got to have one of them pointing where you want to be and know all that is ahead of you BEFORE you twist the grip.
Then OMG, I have seen heaven and it is wonderful beyond belief.
I do not have one. There would only be 2 outcomes. One is cuffed and stuffed and the other is bagged and toe tagged. In both cases, the smile would never go away.
You know in the movies when they warn the hero he is dealing with forces he can not ever understand. It's like that.
Back to reality now.
what are the "detuned" liter bikes like to ride? like the CBR1000R, FZ1, and Ninja 1000? are they "just a taste" of their faster counterparts are can they up and hustle almost just as well?
do they blast off, too?
Well obviously the answer is the CBR1000RR of John McGuinness was a whole 14.1 seconds faster over a distance of 38 miles around the Isle of Mann road course than the CBR600RR of Michael Dunlop in setting the current lap records in 2013. This equates to an average speed difference between the 1000cc bike and the 600cc bike of 3 mph. The reality is that there is no significant performance difference across these comparable bikes under real world conditions, the stop watch doesn't lie.
A Ducati 848 Corse SE is a 850cc bike weighing 195kg with a full tank of fuel and produces 140HP. A BMW R1200RT is an 1150cc bike weighing 274kg with a full tank of fuel and produces 125HP. Which will give the more exhilarating adrenalin pumping performance the 850cc Ducati, or the 1100cc BMW?
I've heard Mark Marques (sp?) say the same thing.
Well, that mannequin was somebody's daughter.
the FZ1 may be "detuned," but it will still peel your face off. 85+ in 1st. first time i took it on the highway, i was in 4th at around 65mph, hit some open highway, punched it, went warpspeed blurry, looked down at the speedometer, and was doing 130, still in 4th, in a matter of a couple seconds. it'll also float the front a couple inches off the ground for surprisingly long distances in almost every gear (in first and second with much less than full throttle). and unlike all the recent literbikes, there's no abs or traction control or power modes. it's just you and the throttle.
as to the 600 v 1000 thing, I'd wager that in real world conditions, a 1000 wont be faster anywhere other than the straights, and only marginally faster on a timed closed "real world" course of twisties or anything else other than long straight highway.
I'd think that in "real world" situations most any torquey bike of similar displacement will feel quicker than either a 600 or 1000cc supersport. Which is more or less why they retune the engines for naked street versions (as with the s1000r).
Factor in traffic, and a bike tuned for the street will "walk away" from the other two at stoplights and filtering through ~35mph traffic, simply because it can squirt into openings without touching the clutch. Maybe the 1000cc supersport will have a slight advantage on the occasional onramp, but give me a bike with a wide power band any day.
Seems like the solution is a V-twin superbike, then.
yup. the Panigale has the best sounding exhaust of all the literbikes anyway
close tie with an RSV4R with a GP can
Oh the Panigale is a BLAST to ride, but it really shouldn't be allowed on the street. Just getting on that thing makes you ride stupid. At first, I didn't even realize how much of a squid I was being the times I took one out on the street. It wants to be ridden that way.
I think it's possible many of the top tier of power bikes shouldnt be allowed on the street. I'd just want the 899, anyway
Did something similar(road wasn't closed, but traffic wasn't around). Definitely not IOM TT stuff. I was riding the gf's GSXR750 following a buddy on his S1000RR. Comparable riding skills. If the road was pretty twisty I kept pace. If there were straights or long flowing sweepers, he could walk away from me. There is one particular uphill section of sweepers call Horsepower Hill. It was readily apparent the S1000RR had more juice ascending. I've been on the same stretch on several liter bikes and there is a noticeable difference on how hard you could accelerate while riding that section of the mountain vs. a smaller bike.
At the end of the ride how far apart were we? A few seconds. Granted it wasn't completely gonzo riding either. I used to "jump to warp" a lot, anymore I tend to focus on being fast through the twisties and not blasting the straights. There are a few long straights where my buddy on the S1000RR could have rung it out to ludicrous speeds and added a few more seconds if I was willing to do the same on the GSXR.
The liter bikes just have more area under the curve when it comes to power band and riding in the range that I think most of us use compared to smaller cc bikes. That's why I chose the RC8R for my latest bike. Not the highest HP of the liter bikes out there, but a fairly fat power band coupled to a sweet chassis. It's quick(deceptively so), but doesn't scream like the I4's do when twisted to the stop and held there.
That being said, my next track day bike will probably be a 600.
i am not familiar with Ducati but was surprised to find one of their 1200's is a two cylinder that can 0 - 60mph in under 3 seconds. wtf is up with that? are they torquey, too? i would think?
anyway very interesting engine design and power. i wonder what the advantage / disadvantage is over a I4? funny looking engine, too. what with that one cylinder almost laying flat. probably more common design then i realize but what do i know!! looks more an L then a V....
There are a lot of 90 degree L twins.