The XL600 thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Gregster, Jul 6, 2007.

  1. RFVC600R

    RFVC600R SAND EATER

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,397
    Location:
    SAND LAND
    You're awesome pete! thanks! gonna pull this engine in the next month and get rid of the annoying leaks :D
  2. davek181

    davek181 Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,096
    Location:
    Idaho
    Carbs aren't that bad, getting them off the bike is though. I have evolved techniques to change jets and needles and slides without pulling them off the bike. Just one of those jobs that I hate to do and avoid at all costs. :1drink

    Funny how opinions differ. I used the copper gasket spray on my headgasket and none others. :lol3
  3. gaspasser

    gaspasser Adventurer

    Joined:
    May 6, 2009
    Oddometer:
    51
    Location:
    Berne N.Y.
    You could try the carb bowls off a twin carb xr. thay have a theaded plug,so you could change the jets without taking carbs off. :clap
  4. Sierra Thumper

    Sierra Thumper Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2012
    Oddometer:
    641
    I know what you mean....I've kicked so many bikes over for friends/family members....even strangers :lol3 I grew up kicking machines of all sizes over, didn't really mind it at all until I got some electric start machines. Then I got a little spoiled :evil
    Now I only own electric starts....so much easier to deal with when flooded, or diagnosing running problems.....or just starting a stubborn bike on a cold morning, or hot tip-over start etc.

    I sold a high comp big bore xr500r to a friend......I went over a month or so later to visit, and see how he liked the bike. He said he hadn't rode it yet because he couldn't start it :eek1 :eek1 :eek1 So I went out and fired it up within a kick or 2, and tried to show him what to do, but he just couldn't develop the feel or kick for it. He sold it soon after to his brother.

    Kicking isn't for everybody :wink:
  5. RFVC600R

    RFVC600R SAND EATER

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,397
    Location:
    SAND LAND
    My XL600R is faster off the line and has higher top speed than my buddies 2006 Kawasaki V-star 950. He was so pissed he got whooped on by a "dirt bike on the street." :rofl

    These old XLs are pretty serious machines or what??
  6. MentalGuru

    MentalGuru Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Oddometer:
    728
    Location:
    Out and about.


    You should ride a built one sometime... :evil


    :1drink
  7. RFVC600R

    RFVC600R SAND EATER

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2011
    Oddometer:
    3,397
    Location:
    SAND LAND
    I want to build mine hopefully next winter.
  8. brokeagain

    brokeagain Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
    Oddometer:
    587
    Location:
    SWPA
    Hi kids!

    First off, thank you all very much for the information that has been provided throughout this thread. It's been wonderful, and I appreciate all of it. You guys helped me replace my cam chain, clean my head and carbs, and all sorts of things. Thank you.

    Now, it's time to get some model specific advice/info for my next project! This way, I can take some pictures and be specific and give back to the community.

    Dual headlights. I managed to get a set of Ruckus headlights (the frame is even in the correct color red, haha). Mounting them, I'll ghetto-fab something up. It's the electrical stuff I'm a little uneasy with.

    Here's what I'm working with, and what I want:

    What I've got: 1984 XL600R. 200W ricky stator, along with the heavy duty reg/rec that they provide (AC and DC). A set of Ruckus headlights, in awesome red.

    What I want: Both lights to be switchable high and low beam, while keeping as much of the bike wiring as stock as possible. Add-ons are fine, I just dont want to completely hack up the wiring harness if I can help it.

    So there are two coils on the stator, ~100W each, and I'd like to keep my DC system the way it is. basic math tells me that 55Wx2 for low beams should be okay on the stock AC lighting coil, but at 65Wx2 for the high beams might be really pushing it and might fry the lighting coil.

    What I was thinking was, that I run the charging coil, as well as the lighting coil to the battery (two 100W coils) through the regulator/rectifier, then run wiring directly from the battery to some relays to switch the lights. I'd like to use the stock switch for this if I can. My other thought would be to have one side of the dual lights be an AC light, and the other side be run off of the DC system from the battery. What would the max wattage bulb that side of the stator be able to handle?

    The main issues that my brain can't seem to wrap around:

    Can I use the stock switch to switch the relays? I'm not sure how the current flows through the switch, and I don't know if it will overload it or not.

    I'd also be curious if I can send both coils into the DC system, and if the reg/rec (it's a tympanium, i believe) can handle that current, or if the battery will be able to keep charged to keep up with the current flow for the dual lights.

    The reading I've done seems to be mostly for stock DC lighting systems (someone made a good writeup for a DR650 dual headlight setup, as well as streetfighter stuff), and being that the XL is an AC/DC mix, that kind of complicates things, I suppose.

    Any input would be wonderful. Or, and xl600lm (dual light) wiring diagram would be helpful. If I can get this together with some good information, there will be a detailed writeup.

    Thank you!
  9. davek181

    davek181 Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,096
    Location:
    Idaho
    I prefer simplicity myself, the less there is, the less there is to go wrong. i also like the idea of splitting the lights, one AC, one DC for the fact that you are drawing on two different sources available without overloading either. The DC side is relatively unused except for signals, brake and tail and instrument lights.

    I would leave one headlight as stock, through the switch and wiring you already have, the AC light would function as normal. The DC light I would run through a relay from the fused and switched battery source available. I would use a 5 prong relay with the 87a and 87 connectors on them. The relay connects 87a while at rest and 87 when activated. Connect the low beam to the 87 and when you turn on the key low beam will come on automatically if you have it wired from 30 to 87a. (alternately you could mount a separate switch to be able to turn off that light independently)

    For high beam I would trigger the relay from the existing high beam switch wire through terminals 86 and 85. Both lights will come on automatically, though the AC light will have to wait for the engine, and switch to high beam with the one stock switch.

    If you were to change your signals and tail and instrument lights to LED as I have it would also free up more amperage for other options, such as heated grips, while not overloading anything.

    Sounds good in theory in my muddled brain, the only grey area I can think of is whether the relay will trip on an AC source, haven't experimented with that yet. I suppose you could add a diode in the switching circuit to straighten out the waveform if needed.

    Just my $.02
  10. brokeagain

    brokeagain Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
    Oddometer:
    587
    Location:
    SWPA
    Thanks for the advice and details. I'll mock up a 'wiring diagram' and post it here for feedback. I think there are AC relays as well as DC relays, but I think the DC relays are the ones that you can easily get at an auto parts store. I also think that I could get a small reg/rec to go inline from there to convert it DC, but that's just conjecture at this point.

    The main thing I was worried about was the blue wire from the switch to the highbeams, as I'm not sure if it supplies current or acts as a ground, though I don't think it does...

    I think I'm going to do the AC/DC light route though, as it'll allow the bike to return to stock like I want, and might allow for a brighter light on the DC side from the lack of draw from the DC side of the system (basically only the taillight and signals).
  11. davek181

    davek181 Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,096
    Location:
    Idaho
    The blue wire is power, the headlight is grounded to the system and powered to turn on. That is why I suggested that as a relay trigger. No matter either way, a relay can be grounded to turn on also though I prefer the other way. I have seen in auotomotive applications where headlights are powered and switch on through grounding, though in my experience that method seems more problematic for some reason.
  12. Carter Pewterschmidt

    Carter Pewterschmidt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,128
    Location:
    Milwaukee
    Speaking of which my head is done.:rilla
  13. MentalGuru

    MentalGuru Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Oddometer:
    728
    Location:
    Out and about.
    So what magic did the Wizard do??? :D

    :1drink
  14. Carter Pewterschmidt

    Carter Pewterschmidt Long timer

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2010
    Oddometer:
    1,128
    Location:
    Milwaukee
    Milled and decked the head surface, new bronze guides, seals, with some port and bowl work. Should be fun!
  15. MentalGuru

    MentalGuru Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2011
    Oddometer:
    728
    Location:
    Out and about.

    Nice... That should work great with your cam. That engine was a beast. :deal


    Your engine should really be wild when you're done. :thumb Your face will hurt from the smile you'll have... :lol3

    :beer
  16. m2h

    m2h "Old guys rule"

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2012
    Oddometer:
    146
    Location:
    Waipu New Zealand
  17. brokeagain

    brokeagain Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
    Oddometer:
    587
    Location:
    SWPA
    Mmk, here goes nothing.

    So I drew up a plan:

    [​IMG]

    So, more questions. Do the AC and DC side need to be grounded at different points? I believe the lighting coil ground goes to the frame (I have the Ricky Stator), should the DC grounds also go to the frame, or should I ground them to the negative battery terminal...? Not sure.

    Thinking out loud here: the DC low beam should come on with the keyed ignition switch, and the power feed should be spliced in somewhere after the ignition switch (and therefore after the reg/rec and fuse). When the high beam switch on the handlebars is turned on, the AC high beam turns on, as well as make the electomagnet flip the relay switch and turn on the DC high beam.

    Look/sound okay? Anyone with any experience with this think that I'm going to let the magic smoke out of my electrical system?
  18. davek181

    davek181 Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,096
    Location:
    Idaho
    That is exactly how I envisioned it and tried to relate it. As I said the only things I can think of is AC switching on the relay, and fusing. You did mention an AC relay which I hadn't thought of, but I would probably try the standard relay first for ease of availability and cheapness. For simplicity running the DC light off the ignition switch connection is best, but over time may overload the switch contacts. Another conventional relay switched off the ignition to turn on the light would be a better answer, but that entails more wires and additional fusing. The load on the switch in that case would be the minimal current needed to activate the relay. While you were going through that trouble too, you could easily add another switch to turn the DC light off and on if desired. On the relay you can either switch the hot or ground side whichever is easiest to do.

    Grounds are grounds, both systems ground to the frame and don't care if they share a connection. I don't mind adding a redundant ground or two even without modifications. For instance, you might think handlebars would ground well, and they do for the most part, but if you think about it the ground path goes through the steering head bearings. I used the bars as a ground for my heated grips since it was so easy and have had no troubles. I figured at the time I did it that worst case scenario was no heated grips, but not a case where it would make me have to push the bike home.

    That is part of my thinking always. First simplicity and light weight, then reliability. The system we are designing for your bike as it stands now could go up in smoke and die if shorted out and unfused properly but the machine would still run since the ignition system is completely untouched. I have ridden out of the mountains in darkness using what I could see from my riding buddy's headlight, but I rode out. (turned out to be a bad ground on my headlight in that instance, remember redundant grounds are good things)
  19. brokeagain

    brokeagain Been here awhile

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2012
    Oddometer:
    587
    Location:
    SWPA
    Alright. Here's a revision.

    [​IMG]

    Please excuse all my questions, I'm new to electrical system mods. I can replace stock stuff, but as far as planning goes, I've never done this before.

    Is the negative battery terminal an acceptable ground? And I think from what you stated before, I can just take all the grounds from this circuit and combine them into one wire to ground somewhere?

    Good call with the additional relay, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to include it. From what I had been reading, I believe the current draw to charge the relay coil is only around 0.1A (coil resistance dependent).

    The 65W high beam on the DC side should be pulling around 8A, so the relays should be able to easily handle that. Is 20A an acceptable fuse value? 15 might be a little better, but I don't want to be blowing fuses very often.

    Also, I was thinking about housing all of this in a waterproof box somewhere behind the headlight, to include the other wiring that is exposed with the Ruckus headlight setup.

    If you see any other issues with this, I'm willing to take all the free advice I can get! Otherwise, I'm going to start wiring some stuff together soon.

    :norton

    Thanks again!
  20. davek181

    davek181 Long timer

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2007
    Oddometer:
    1,096
    Location:
    Idaho
    Looks good. Your drawing skills have improved greatly too. I would have drawn one for you if I were smart enough to do it.

    That is exactly what I had pictured in my mind, alternatively on either the ground or hot side of the additional relay from the ignition switch feed you could put a switch to be able to turn that light of if desired. I usually switch the ground side so that if a wire chafes and wears through to ground it just switches the relay on rather than blowing fuses. On that same note, fuse any circuit you use as close to the source as you can so the unfused section of wire is as short as possible. If there is a short in the wire before the fuse you will get smoke, so leave the possible exposure at a minimum.

    I would think a 15 amp fuse would be good enough. 20 amp is getting into wire frying country with the gauge of wire we are dealing with in my opinion.

    A ground is a ground and it all goes back to the negative terminal of the battery. As I stated earlier a redundant ground from the frame to the battery wouldn't hurt anything. ( I don't like to put all my eggs in one basket, so to speak)

    A box behind the headlight if there is room for it is fine, just remember that the steering will flex any wires that turn with the fork so try to keep that to a minimum too. Mount the box stationary to the steering head if possible and have only the necessary wire flexing. Another possibility I would employ on my bike is that I would use the area where my battery used to reside for an electrical box that could hold a couple of relays and wiring needed. Though you would still have to run a minimum of three wires forward in that case.

    Ask all the questions you want, I don't mind answering ones that I can. I know many others on the site feel the same way, so if I can't answer, or answer wrong, someone will set the record straight gladly. Much better to plan ahead and do it right the first time.