The XL600 thread

Discussion in 'Thumpers' started by Gregster, Jul 6, 2007.

  1. davek181

    davek181 Been here awhile

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    The blue wire is power, the headlight is grounded to the system and powered to turn on. That is why I suggested that as a relay trigger. No matter either way, a relay can be grounded to turn on also though I prefer the other way. I have seen in auotomotive applications where headlights are powered and switch on through grounding, though in my experience that method seems more problematic for some reason.
  2. Carter Pewterschmidt

    Carter Pewterschmidt Long timer

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    Speaking of which my head is done.:rilla
  3. MentalGuru

    MentalGuru Crazy Diamond

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    So what magic did the Wizard do??? :D

    :1drink
  4. Carter Pewterschmidt

    Carter Pewterschmidt Long timer

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    Milled and decked the head surface, new bronze guides, seals, with some port and bowl work. Should be fun!
  5. MentalGuru

    MentalGuru Crazy Diamond

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    Nice... That should work great with your cam. That engine was a beast. :deal


    Your engine should really be wild when you're done. :thumb Your face will hurt from the smile you'll have... :lol3

    :beer
  6. m2h

    m2h "Old guys rule"

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  7. brokeagain

    brokeagain Been here awhile

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    Mmk, here goes nothing.

    So I drew up a plan:

    [​IMG]

    So, more questions. Do the AC and DC side need to be grounded at different points? I believe the lighting coil ground goes to the frame (I have the Ricky Stator), should the DC grounds also go to the frame, or should I ground them to the negative battery terminal...? Not sure.

    Thinking out loud here: the DC low beam should come on with the keyed ignition switch, and the power feed should be spliced in somewhere after the ignition switch (and therefore after the reg/rec and fuse). When the high beam switch on the handlebars is turned on, the AC high beam turns on, as well as make the electomagnet flip the relay switch and turn on the DC high beam.

    Look/sound okay? Anyone with any experience with this think that I'm going to let the magic smoke out of my electrical system?
  8. davek181

    davek181 Been here awhile

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    That is exactly how I envisioned it and tried to relate it. As I said the only things I can think of is AC switching on the relay, and fusing. You did mention an AC relay which I hadn't thought of, but I would probably try the standard relay first for ease of availability and cheapness. For simplicity running the DC light off the ignition switch connection is best, but over time may overload the switch contacts. Another conventional relay switched off the ignition to turn on the light would be a better answer, but that entails more wires and additional fusing. The load on the switch in that case would be the minimal current needed to activate the relay. While you were going through that trouble too, you could easily add another switch to turn the DC light off and on if desired. On the relay you can either switch the hot or ground side whichever is easiest to do.

    Grounds are grounds, both systems ground to the frame and don't care if they share a connection. I don't mind adding a redundant ground or two even without modifications. For instance, you might think handlebars would ground well, and they do for the most part, but if you think about it the ground path goes through the steering head bearings. I used the bars as a ground for my heated grips since it was so easy and have had no troubles. I figured at the time I did it that worst case scenario was no heated grips, but not a case where it would make me have to push the bike home.

    That is part of my thinking always. First simplicity and light weight, then reliability. The system we are designing for your bike as it stands now could go up in smoke and die if shorted out and unfused properly but the machine would still run since the ignition system is completely untouched. I have ridden out of the mountains in darkness using what I could see from my riding buddy's headlight, but I rode out. (turned out to be a bad ground on my headlight in that instance, remember redundant grounds are good things)
  9. brokeagain

    brokeagain Been here awhile

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    Alright. Here's a revision.

    [​IMG]

    Please excuse all my questions, I'm new to electrical system mods. I can replace stock stuff, but as far as planning goes, I've never done this before.

    Is the negative battery terminal an acceptable ground? And I think from what you stated before, I can just take all the grounds from this circuit and combine them into one wire to ground somewhere?

    Good call with the additional relay, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to include it. From what I had been reading, I believe the current draw to charge the relay coil is only around 0.1A (coil resistance dependent).

    The 65W high beam on the DC side should be pulling around 8A, so the relays should be able to easily handle that. Is 20A an acceptable fuse value? 15 might be a little better, but I don't want to be blowing fuses very often.

    Also, I was thinking about housing all of this in a waterproof box somewhere behind the headlight, to include the other wiring that is exposed with the Ruckus headlight setup.

    If you see any other issues with this, I'm willing to take all the free advice I can get! Otherwise, I'm going to start wiring some stuff together soon.

    :norton

    Thanks again!
  10. davek181

    davek181 Been here awhile

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    Looks good. Your drawing skills have improved greatly too. I would have drawn one for you if I were smart enough to do it.

    That is exactly what I had pictured in my mind, alternatively on either the ground or hot side of the additional relay from the ignition switch feed you could put a switch to be able to turn that light of if desired. I usually switch the ground side so that if a wire chafes and wears through to ground it just switches the relay on rather than blowing fuses. On that same note, fuse any circuit you use as close to the source as you can so the unfused section of wire is as short as possible. If there is a short in the wire before the fuse you will get smoke, so leave the possible exposure at a minimum.

    I would think a 15 amp fuse would be good enough. 20 amp is getting into wire frying country with the gauge of wire we are dealing with in my opinion.

    A ground is a ground and it all goes back to the negative terminal of the battery. As I stated earlier a redundant ground from the frame to the battery wouldn't hurt anything. ( I don't like to put all my eggs in one basket, so to speak)

    A box behind the headlight if there is room for it is fine, just remember that the steering will flex any wires that turn with the fork so try to keep that to a minimum too. Mount the box stationary to the steering head if possible and have only the necessary wire flexing. Another possibility I would employ on my bike is that I would use the area where my battery used to reside for an electrical box that could hold a couple of relays and wiring needed. Though you would still have to run a minimum of three wires forward in that case.

    Ask all the questions you want, I don't mind answering ones that I can. I know many others on the site feel the same way, so if I can't answer, or answer wrong, someone will set the record straight gladly. Much better to plan ahead and do it right the first time.
  11. brokeagain

    brokeagain Been here awhile

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    Straight lines will do wonders to improve the quality of a technical drawing!

    Again, thanks for the advice. Once I gather most everything, I feel like putting this together won't be a big deal.

    Pics/write-up to follow!
  12. Stretchah

    Stretchah Been here awhile

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    Hey Guys, Have been doing a little more digging and it looks like the 86, 87, 88 CR500 forks were made like this by Honda i.e. dropping in size as you go up the fork, 43mm botttom yoke and 41mm top. here's a pic of an 87 and you can clearly see the line where it changes thye same as mine....
    [​IMG]

    The 86 - 88 ones are cartridge forks and from what I've read the XR600 ones were based on and pretty much the same as these, but, without the size difference in stem diameter. Going by this bit of blurb I found trawling and more photo's I've found the CR250 ones seem to be the same from 86 - 87, not sure if there was a length difference though. Apparently the axle size is 17mm, but, I will check this with mine...

    "By 1987, the conventional forks were developed to a very high level and
    most agree the 87 cartridge forks on the CR250 and 500 were some of the
    best ever offered on any production bike. In 1988, Honda switched to the
    upside down forks (89 for the 500) and it was all down hill for many years.
    It's the same as the debate about Steel vs. Aluminum frames, not everyone
    is convinced the switch to Aluminum was a good idea. In fact in 97, if I
    remember correctly, Suzuki switched back to conventional forks on the RMs."

    It seems it might give us another option for upgrades and I will pull my finger out and measure that axle :D
  13. Carter Pewterschmidt

    Carter Pewterschmidt Long timer

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    Thanks for that. Might have to keep this fork swap in mind.
  14. davek181

    davek181 Been here awhile

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    I have a spare set of 85 CR500 forks laying around. It is stepped also on the top. I measured the axle on it and it is 17mm in size. I compared the axle on an 87 model through an online lookup and they all use the same axle those years. So it is confirmed 17mm axle, 6003 bearings.
  15. Stretchah

    Stretchah Been here awhile

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    Cheers for confirming that Dave :)
  16. cyclewizard

    cyclewizard Long timer

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    Also put a five angle performance valve job on it 75/60/45/30/15 degree's... opened the intake ports to 30.56mm's from the 26.87mm's the head came with, used a bowl hog and enlarged both the intake and exhaust pockets for better/more flow, glass beaded the rocker box and head. Installed new KW valves..:D
  17. daviethebiker

    daviethebiker Adventurer

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    I recently bought a new chain slider for the swingarm on my 1987 XL600R. When I took the swingarm off I felt reassembly was going to be tough as the swingarm was very hard to get apart from the frame. I cleaning everything and put the new chain guide on and got ready to install the swingarm but I can't get the swingarm to slide into position. Is it easier if I loosen the other engine mount in the rear ? Are there any tricks to make re-installing the swingarm easier ? Thank you.
  18. Edouard_Bracame

    Edouard_Bracame Adventurer

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    A solution for these jet size is to buy a set of mini carburator reamer, you just enlarge the fuel passage with the mini reamer, and if the hole is too big and you want to reduce your jet size , you just meld some soldering lead in the passage and then you bore it using mini drill bit(Dremel), and then you finish it with your reamer.

    I'm reading the all thread and I'm @ page 96...:rofl
  19. davek181

    davek181 Been here awhile

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    There must be something else going on here, the swingarm is not that hard to get back in. I have extra wheels with mounted tires ready for a quick swap and on the rear. I scavenged up enough parts to outfit a spare swingarm I have figuring that would be a faster swap than fiddling with axles and adjusters and stuff. The hardest part for me is holding the end caps in place while sliding the swinagarm into place, and that is really not that hard at all.

    I would study a parts breakdown online (like Babbits online, or partszilla) and make sure all of the pieces are in their respective places and the dust seals on the ends fit tightly and bottom out on the ends of the arm. Maybe someone folded the seals over in the dust caps and somehow got it forced back together. It would be really hard to bend the frame there making it tighter, and loosening motor mounts wouldn't help anything there either in my opinion, but that is easy enough to try. Swingarms are very much alike between models so even if it were the wrong one it should still fit. i think 500, 600, 650l, even 250 and 350 all interchange easily.

    I would try to test fit it without the seals on the end first to see what the measurement is between the frame and arm, then go from there. If someone assembled it with pieces missing and pinched it together there, I bet you could jack it back out with a bottle jack or similar device.
  20. daviethebiker

    daviethebiker Adventurer

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    Thank you davek181. I had tried the bottle jack yesterday and again today, even after loosening the other engine mount, but I just couldn't get it to fit. After taking a little break and relaxing I went out and the swingarm went in with a little extra push and jiggling. I went to assemble the pro-link and noticed I had another stripped nut for one of the linkage bolts. The linkage is cleaned, regreased and assemble, just need the last nut to finish. Riding days are with me again !