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Discussion in 'Land of the Rising Sun: ADV Bikes from Japan' started by mr moto, Feb 9, 2008.
Hehe It's only a matter of time.........
The rubber inserts are designed to compress when you stand up and then you get the steel teeth into your boot. So theoretically, comfy rubber for sitting and steel teeth when standing.
But I would also like to know whether they did work "as advertised".
Excuse me for laughing out loud here. The Tenere has a 23l tank, the GS has a 20l tank. From what I've seen so far, they are pretty comparable in mileage (I rode the standard GS with an average of 5.2l/100km and get about 4.6l/100km from my F800GS). The Tenere can go about 50km further? So what? The GSA goes another 150km further than the Tenere ...
Given that we don't have reliable gas mileage numbers just yet, we'll have to see how the Yami stands against the standard GS as BMW is known for fuel efficiency. It might very well be that the difference is smaller than expected given the same rider / same riding style / same route. Will be interesting to see that and we will as soon as there are more Teneres out and people start riding longer tours together with GS / GSA riders.
I have not even seen the Tenere, therefore I can't say anything about how it feels, how it rides, how it handles. I have ridden the R1200GS and I know it's an incredibly capable bike. I'd love to be able to compare first hand and I hope this will happen one day.
But sticking to technical specs, the Super Tenere is much closer to a spec'd out GS than it is to a GSA. I'm not surprised that it feels much more nimble and light compared to the GSA. There is not much out there that doesn't at slow speeds when that huge gas tank is full ...
So far I think people compare the Super Tenere to the GSA merely because the first edition has the crash bars and the bags and some more crap - same way as the GSA has more accessories than the GS. But there is much more difference between GS and GSA than that. The suspension is higher, the tank is much larger, the seat is much higher and so on. There is nothing right now like a Super Tenere Adventure. It's just a special edition GS with bags equivalent. And that's what it should be compared to in my opinion. Feel free to have a different opinion, but please at least explain it properly.
And again a disclaimer: I'd love to see the Yami here in the US as competition is good and I think it's a really, really interesting, capable, and good bike. But I'll still give it a bit to settle and show how it holds up when people start putting real miles on them like they do with the Beemers. No doubt it will have it's issues. Probably more than people like to admit as it is a fairly new development and even if parts are around for quite some time, you never know what the different package and optimizations actually do better or worse than the well known components. I really hope it will be reliable as a hammer, cheap to maintain as a V-Strom, as much fun in the dirt as an F800GS, but all that will have to be seen.
That's also the reason why I really like to watch this thread develop. I like the optics of the ST, I like the additions that come with the first edition, I'd like to try that touring windshield and so on. So, Wasp, keep going, post pictures and videos and have loads of fun with this great bike, but if you compare make sure you compare fair.
Another disclaimer: you can compare apples to oranges and melons and bananas and the monkeys eating them. The question that comes up then how valuable those comparisons are. And mind not, it's good to hear that it feels much lighter than the GSA despite the heavy real world weight. I still don't want to pick it up when it topples over ... (And yes, I also really don't want to pick up a fully fueled GSA, or even a GSA with an empty tank.)
I feel the same way. Don't forget to do your part to goad Yamaha to bring this sexy beast stateside
Yep.. All fair comments and very fair call..
As I have said, I am probably remiss in not comparing the S10 to the GS rather than the GSA but my intentions were not to deceive or portray any misinformation,, I simply was not interested in the GS so comparison to that bike were not on the mind.
If I do have an opertunity to get hold of a GS for measure and parts manufacture I will sit them side by side and take some pics and a bit of a weight comparo feel.
By the way, I have dropped the S10:eek1 and in a downhill laying position that saw the handlebars at a lower level than the wheels.
I was slowly crossing a really deep water wash rut and slowed too much and had no where to place my foot.
The bike went down, the engine switched off (as it is supposed to), and I found lifting it lighter than I would have expected although as i lifted it it rolled back (under control and expected).
It was on its left hand (radiator side) and there was absolutely no damage to any of the painted panels... I think the bike sat on the L/H engine guard and the handlebars..
I will try and stick a short video clip of the fall on here later.
cug (and others), my intention here is not to fly the flag for Yamaha (or any other brand).. I really dont give a shit what is written on the side of the tank as long as I get good (perceived) value for my money.
Rest assured, you will hear about every development with this bike,, Good, Bad, or indifferent.. I will report warts and all... I dont hold any shares in Yamaha.
In a bid to portray real life situation I actually loaded the top box yesterday with:
Canon EOS 1Dmk3 + 24-105L in bag with flash and spare bats.
3 bottles water.
TomTom Rider V2
Wallet(not that heavy)
All inside the Yamaha top box liner.
All up there was probably only 8>9kg but you can see from the video that it would have had the shit beaten out of it on the corrugations and whoops and rain ruts.
I was expecting to (and would happily have) report a broken top box..
That didnt happen this ride but if it did or does,, you will hear about it.
I dunno if you get my point, but the thing is, I only ride this bike, I dont sleep with it or have any deep rooted feelings for it. It's just a bike and if it has a bad day, you will probably hear about it.. At the moment though, it has'nt had any bad days
I have both screens also. The big one has been on from new so I have not tried the little one (not that there is much size difference for £120 !).
How tall are you Greg and what inside leg do you have. I ask because if my legs were in proportion to my body I would be 6'1" and not 5'10".
Probably a similar size at 5'11", but I may be a bit rounder than you.
Mum used to call me Legs when I was a kid as I should probably be taller for my leg length.
I have the S10 seat on the high setting.
If you could be bothered sitting through boring unedited video's there is one posted at my thread on page 13. There is also one uploading to youtube at the moment and will be posted up in about four hours.
On these you will no doubt see me and my portly shape.. (and my offroad style:eek1)
Speak for yourself please, if gobbled up any reading material, and as the German are verry proad of their own bread (eg. BMW) i'm sure the reports of Das Motorrad, Mopped, Tourenfahrer, Mo und PS are "a little" biased.
If they all say the Tenere does about on average 5.1 on road, you still say there aren't reliable sources ?
For the rest it's been said over and over again, the standard GS is *not* comparable by lack of any of the goodies found standard on the Tenere.
Yes you can stock up a Beemer with all the goodies too, but then again, the price goes ballistic...
But hey, *you* may compare it to anything *you* want, go on, write a report if you know better
I for One are verry Happy with Wasps Work, especcially the downhill bracking piece halfway the ride defeats any angst about the ABS not being disable able...
it comes to a verry controlled halt while the gravel being damp of recent rain too.
I would not dare to try that with a beemer, btdt, flew a little like no brakes were attached to the bike.
You Call that boring?
How do you ride, when you think it will give exiting video :eek1
I'm anxiously awaiting more "boring" video from that lovele back garden of yours.
But now for the interested technician in me, were you riding with ABS active, and how did it fare on corrogated downslopes?
Becaus i've had numerous occaisions with ABS ecquipped bikes, that just let the brakes off in such circumstances, which feels verry uncomfortable, you actually pull the handle into the handlebar, but the bike keeps on picking up speed...
Hah hah,, glad you enjoyed it. Keep watching as there are more "boring" unedited video's to come.
O.K - the ABS thing.
As has been suggested on previous bike tests and reviews, the ABS on the Super Tenere is very sophisticated in the way it works and the way the "linked" aspect of the brakes work.
The ABS takes a lot to get used to,,, or should I say "having faith in the LINKED BRAKING ABS takes a lot to get used to".
When we first set out on the ride yesterday we negotiated our first steep gravel downhill and, without thinking, I instinctively rode the rear brake as I was on the throttle. Let me tell you all right now - the braking from the rear only was VERY limited, but as soon as I felt the lack of brakes (pulsing pedal) I switched back to front brakes and all was fine.
On two occasions I did switch the ABS off completely as I negotiated similar slippery downhills but then was halfway down and committed to the gnarliest hill of them all (with ABS braking turned on and pulling on the front/linked brakes happy as larry) when it sunk in what I was doing.. It was like Obi-One's voice in my head saying "Use the linked ABS braking force Greg".... Have faith in the front brake lever. It WILL work properly.
I no longer feel the need to switch off (spin up the back wheel in 2nd gear method) the ABS and prefer to get my mind in the right place to trust the technology.
The last time I took a bike on anything but tar was in the mid 80's. An '81 GS1000S with clip ons attending various rally's all over the East coast of Oz. Eyes like dinner plates and butt cheeks made of steel after attempting to levitate me and the bike every time either end drifted an inch in either direction. Levitation seemed easier in the 80's. haha Love the black stuff but not to fond on the loose stuff....... Yet
Roll forward a quarter of a century and the eyes are still like dinner plates but the butt cheeks are more like saddle bags......
The S10 certainly gives me a sharper edge for this sort of shenanigans.
Had an hour or so on some fire trails 2 days ago and had a ball. Thought I would try it again today at a different spot.......
There is a black plastic guard just under the left (and right) fairing that is perfect in conjuction with the handle bar to balance the bike in the horizontal position without scratching any paint work or puncturing the radiator.
No it was not intentional...... I fell off.....
Whole new adventure on the loose stuff....
Just like in the 80's went out for a good time not ever thinking about protection.....
Now to find the Yamaha parts catalogue and grab me some of them engine bars.
Seeing Greg throw the same model around so easily FAAARRRKKKK hahaha my eyes are still spinning around haha Can't wait for the next installment.
Let the good times roll.
Great work Greg keep it up.
Good to hear, and about the rear brake, how natural it feels, it actually is dangerous on downhill slopes, better always use the front.
The back wheel is allready in a "stoppy" position, so there is no grip to be found there, it was one of the verry valuable lessons i learned in Hechlingen, i was riding for 25 years offroad allready, before i learned that you better use the front in downhilling...
But beware, as the bike is allready tilted forward into stoppy position., it tips over quite easily if you overdo it...
I dunno.. It's a really weird sensation of being able to feel the back griping under brakes as well. It really does work exceptionally well.
I am an old mx + enduro + road racer so I am very well tuned to maxing out the front brake and trailing the rear. With these you just have to remove yourself from wanting to touch the back.
Well on tarmac i really like to use it in conjunction with power, nice they made a de-coupling, so it doesnt activate the front with it, so in really inclined corners you still can finetune your speed with it, or pull the bike down in case of possible overshoot.
Its perfect so, 1280 is nice but on a lot of notebooks with built-in graphics it will drop lots of frames, especially netbooks will love your lowresolution up-loads.
My viewport on the world is just 1024x768 (X61) , so 1280 would make me miss al the nice scenery
And what a horrible crash !, On abeemer you sure would have ripped of a cilinder !
Why did you try to outrun that WR250?
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Pffff ... (harsher comment about biased people deleted here)
No, they are not. Reliable sources are sources that track consumption of many normal users each doing over at least ten to twenty full tanks. What the journalists do is statistically not relevant.
Also, where do you see this value? That would be interesting to know as most of what I have seen is that early owners average 5.6 to 5.8 l/100km.
Wasp can you say something about your mileage so far?
Of course it does. In Germany it's about 10% higher for the BMW when you add comparable items - the issue comes up more when you start adding features that are plain not available at all on the ST. That is of course "ballistic" whatever you mean by that. Can't compare in the US as the Yamaha is not available here.
I would do that on any Beamer - turning off the ABS with a press of a button before going offroad.
I really appreciate Wasps thread here as it gives a lot of useful and well thought through information and is pretty much unbiased while you seem to be not so much ...
And, as GadgetBoy pointed out, so I will shut up with that fruitless discussion especially with you as you do seem quite a bit "biased". Personally, I'm very interested in the ST, and I'm reading all the postings from Greg, what I just don't like is people mixing up facts with fantasy.
Reading through the S10 manual, basically looking for "gotchas" - things that might leave you stranded... wondering what kind of battery charger they are talking about on page 6-28;
To charge a VRLA (Valve Regulated Lead Acid) battery, a special (constant-voltage) battery charger is required. Using a conventional battery charger will damage the battery. If you do not have access to a constant-voltage battery charger, have a Yamaha dealer charge your battery.
Anyone had experience with these battery, or know how common/uncommon the required chargers are?
Sounds the same as any VRLA.
You can't just chuck any old POS charger on it and expect it to just bubble away till it's dry. You need to have a charger that regulates to 14.1v that's all.
Same as my Strom, My wifes bike and most bikes OEM batteries for years.
Nothing to see here..move along..
They are usually Glass Matt type as opposed to GEL types from memory.
you can do a bit of edumacation here..